TRP 347: Career Assessment for Law Firm Partners with Scott Love

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by legal dealmaker, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love. You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thank you for joining me on the show. Today is part of our Sometimes Tuesdays legal specific shows in our series. And today's topic is career assessment.

[00:00:38] Our special guest is me. From time to time, as you know, I do what are called solo casts. And I thought, because I work in the career area, I wanted to share ideas, especially right now for those in the legal profession. If you're a partner in a law firm, this is the time that most partners start thinking about, should I be making a move or should I stay where I'm at? Why is that? Because many times they get their bonus or distribution, sometimes in January, February, March. So this is the time of the year that a lot of people start thinking about making a move.

[00:01:06] As I've been in the recruiting industry for over 30 years, I wanted to share some ideas that I think could help you. Before I do that, though, a nod to our sponsors. As you know, this podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights, turning legal intelligence into opportunity. The show is also sponsored by The Rainmaking Magazine, with over 40 authors and contributors sharing the best ideas in client development. Check it out. It's absolutely free. Just go to therainmakingmagazine.com.

[00:01:35] And if you're a transactional partner for law firms and want ideas that can help you maximize your deal flow, attend our live half-hour webinar events once a month, where I interview a different author or business development coach on what transactional partners can do to maximize their deal flow. Visit this link. We have a link set up. Just go to rainmakingseminars.com to get on the list. Your info won't be shared with anyone outside of our organization. Now, let me get to our topic title today.

[00:02:05] One resource I want to give you is this. Go to partnersonthemove.com. That's a separate platform that I set up because I've been doing this for quite some time, and it's pretty much all the intellectual property in my mind that I made absolutely free for law firm partners that are thinking about making a move. You don't need to register. You don't need to type in your information. I have resources there, such as a flowchart that is the process of moving to another firm,

[00:02:34] the emotional phases of a move, challenges of moving, strategic growth, ethics considerations, how to write your business plan, how do you interview, how do you fill out the LPQ, partner compensation info, integration ideas, and then even ethics issues that you need to be concerned with when you move. So check it out. It's partnersonthemove.com. Now, I even have a quiz on there that you can take. You don't have to type in any of your info.

[00:03:01] And let me talk about some of the things that I think are important to people when they move. Now, here's some context. I started getting into recruiting back in 1995, before the Internet, before there was LinkedIn. I've been involved in I don't know how many placements, several hundred, I think. I got into legal in 2009, and since then, all I've been doing is just partners. And as of three years ago, I'm a niched specialist. I'm an expert. I only do my outbound recruiting in corporate and finance.

[00:03:28] Now, we get referrals to litigation groups all the time. I've placed people in pretty much every practice group you can imagine, from IP to antitrust, even lobbyists. So I've seen it all, and I understand that there are certain reasons why a partner might want to consider making a move. And what I did through this empirical data, I put together a quiz that can help you determine, should you even consider taking a look at other options? And there are several categories in there. Let me share these with you.

[00:03:57] And think about how this impacts you today in your firm. The first one is the confidence in your firm's leadership. Do you have strong confidence that the firm's executive leadership and those in the executive committee believe that they're, do you believe that they're making sound long-term decisions? Or what have you seen in the past? The people that might be new in leadership, what experience do they have in running organizations? Or are these people that you know and you feel confident with them, or maybe you don't?

[00:04:26] The other issue is clarity in the firm's strategic direction. Do they have a clear, well-communicated strategy? And do you understand where the firm is headed over the next three to five years? Another area of concern is the alignment between the firm's strategy and your practice. I'll tell you this. Most partners leave, in the simplest terms, for one of two reasons. Either leadership issues or strategy issues. This is an important place.

[00:04:53] I've heard people say, my firm or my practice in my firm is just an afterthought. We're in an outpost geographically. I want to be a firm where there's more power concentrated where we are geographically or within my practice. And that's an issue of alignment in terms of strategy between the firm and your practice. The fourth area is the leadership support for your practice. Is there a lot of support for what you do in a firm? Number five are the resources and infrastructure.

[00:05:20] Do you have the resources that you need, such as talent, leverage, technology, marketing, pricing flexibility, to grow your practice effectively? Let me talk a little bit about support here in terms of talent. I've seen some firms that have made it a priority to really support partners by hiring associates. And I've seen some firms where, meh, it's just not that big of a deal. And that's one of the biggest reasons I've seen, especially right now.

[00:05:47] Partners might say, I was told that our firm is going to continue to hire people in this area and they just haven't done much. I've approached the management on that and I get a shrug of shoulders. Sorry, we'll do our best. And they just don't see any action. I've got some clients that have made it very clear, especially when they open up an office or bring on a new group. They want to support that and they put an investment in terms of staff in that.

[00:06:13] I've seen national law firms that have over a thousand attorneys have maybe only three or four people supporting the entire recruiting effort for their firm. I've seen other firms where they have geographic depth and they have more people focusing just on taxes than other firms do for their entire platform. So it really depends. That's something that I'd recommend as you look at a firm. Tell me about your staff support in terms of recruiting for associates.

[00:06:40] That's something that I would recommend you have as a checklist in your checklist of firms that you're going to look at. Number six is internal collaboration and esprit de corps. Is there a genuine culture of collaboration where you are? Have you seen that with your own eyes? Is there enough of a disconnect with your own value system in that regard that it warrants taking a meeting with a competitor? Is there trust among your partnership? Is there mutual respect among your partners?

[00:07:08] This is something that really what I mentioned before about leadership. This is why people will leave their firms. They've seen with their own eyes. People in a leadership role talk negatively about their colleagues when they are not in the room. That's a tell. That's someone that doesn't have effective leadership. And if you've seen it once, you'll see it again.

[00:07:28] My own opinion, having met over 80 law firms in person and being niched within this area, is that law firms tend to resemble the character of those that are running it. It might not necessarily reflect the character of those that are at the top. But there could be section group leaders that are really a significant leader in the firm. And their ineffective strategy on leadership or some sort of character issue might be seen throughout the entire organization.

[00:07:56] And that might impact how people follow that person. So that's something that you need to look at. Your internal collaboration and esprit de corps. Seven, your firm's ability to attract and retain talent, like I mentioned before. Can they really do it? Number eight, what's the financial health and the transparency in your firm? Are you confident in your firm's financial stability, profitability, and transparency around compensation and capital?

[00:08:24] Number nine, your personal influence and voice. Is your voice heard among the leadership? Do you have meaningful influence over decisions that affect your practice and your clients? And number 10, your long-term personal fulfillment. I'll never forget the time I asked a candidate that told me he'd been thinking about making a move. This is a significant equity partner and a significant firm. I said, how does your wife? And we got to know each other. I said, what does your wife think about thinking about you looking at other firms? And he said this.

[00:08:54] He said, she just wants me to be happy and she knows I'm not happy. I can't think of anything worse than a successful person being in an organization that's misaligned on all these different levels. And believe me, there are opportunities out there that do align in all these levels. So let me share some other ideas about should you consider making a move or not? Well, ask yourself this question. What is your personal satisfaction level within your own firm on a scale of one to 10?

[00:09:22] There are some people I talk to these people all the time. I love it here. I'm never leaving. I feel supported. These people are my closest friends. I love the team. And you know what I've always noticed is that there's an emotional context in their answer. They love it there. They're not going to leave. No, thanks. I'm not looking. It's okay. That's fine. They feel supported. They're able to serve their clients. They're growing professionally. They feel a good level of professional challenge by being there. They're contributing to the team.

[00:09:52] They're able to see that they're able to mentor younger attorneys and make a difference in how those people thrive. That's so rewarding to a lot of people. Are you in a firm that has that? If not, there are firms that really encourage that. Are you maximizing your potential economically? Let me talk a bit about this. I don't think that's always the best reason to move. You can always make more just by going to some other firm, but there's going to be a price to it.

[00:10:19] There are some firms, though, that pay a little bit more in terms of the proportion based on what the partner does when he or she is at a certain level. That's never, ever the most important reason to move, but there are opportunities out there. The one thing I will tell you, though, are you being taken advantage of by your leadership? Are you being paid below market? And can you move? Do you have the kind of book that can help you move and improve your situation economically? So ask yourself that question.

[00:10:47] What is your satisfaction level on a scale of 1 to 10? And if it's about 7 and 8, that's okay. If it's about a 6 or below, that might mean that you should take a meeting with another firm. What's between that 6 and 10 that would need to change? Those are conversations I have with people all the time. So what if there was another option that was presented to you, and you think that some of those problems could be remedied just by moving,

[00:11:13] that you think it's worth it to go there, or maybe you're just not sure? I would recommend investigate it. Take a short meeting. And the way I phrase it with people all the time, I say, I'm not asking you to leave. I'm asking you to have a half-hour conversation. The downside with that is that it's another person in your network. Maybe there's a referring opportunity there at some point. But then you'll know. After a half hour, it either is worth it to continue on or it's not. And I tell people to have a calibrated eye. Be very critical when you look at another option.

[00:11:43] Ask yourself questions like this. What's the downside if I move there? Do I know I'm going to be better off over there or at my current firm? If anything, you'll know that you do have it pretty good compared to other options. But take a half-hour and then stop and assess. And at the end of that half-hour initial round, ask yourself this question. From what I've seen so far, does it make sense logically for me to go to another round and have a deeper conversation?

[00:12:11] Or do we disengage in part as friends? You owe it to yourself to at least take a half-hour and have a conversation. You can even tell them or the legal recruiter or headhunter that's presenting you to that firm, tell them, I probably won't leave this firm. It may not go anywhere. But because I respect them, I owe it to myself to at least have a half-hour meeting. But just let them know. Set the expectations. Nothing might come out of this. But I'm happy to at least have a conversation. Because I will tell you this. I really believe this.

[00:12:40] That there's never any downside in keeping an open mind. I've been doing this for a long time. I've seen so many different types of placements. And some have been very surprising. People that told me. And I'm not going to say names, of course. But I'm laughing. If you're listening, you know who you are. I'm not looking. And my colleague Janine actually talked to him and said, I heard you hesitate there when you answered my question. And he chuckled and said, just talk to my colleague Scott. Sure enough, the rest is history. He's grateful he's there.

[00:13:10] He said clients poured it over that he didn't even think were portable. And I love those kinds of stories. Because as I got to know him and we developed some trust, I found out that there were perhaps some goals that he had that he couldn't reach. And then he did his diligence. And he made an effective decision. And everybody's happy. The chairman reached out to me personally to tell me that. Anyways, those are things that happen when you just might think, I'm never going to leave.

[00:13:36] But there is something on my mind that's keeping me from being completely happy. And this is actually the time of year to consider those. So recommendations. If you do decide to take a meeting, look at that resource I mentioned, partnersonthemove.com. And by the way, I've had resources on my website since 2013, I think. And I decided about a year ago, let's have a separate site. It's totally confidential. You don't have to put any of your information there. It's completely free. That's something that can help you get your arms around and move.

[00:14:06] Because there are pitfalls. This is why I call myself, or not pitfalls, but there are speed bumps along the way that we want to watch out for. And I call myself the midwife of the placement process because I know where those all are. In fact, some attorneys say, I want to go to a firm. I've got close friends there, but I want you to represent me. And I want you to navigate that because I don't want people to think I'm looking. And I really, I really do want to go there, but I don't want to be seen as too eager.

[00:14:34] And so I want you to present me as someone that you headhunted and present them, me to them saying, you're not on the market. You may just stay where you are, but you know people there. And out of courtesy to them, you thought you should at least explore any opportunities. And so I've done it that way just because I can navigate the deal. And then also help negotiate the comp to where it gets to where everybody benefits. And my own philosophy, and as a legal recruiter, my company mission statement is I channel the self-interest of a partner or a group.

[00:15:03] So it intersects with law firm strategy. So check out that resource that will help you to understand the process, including comp expectations, interviewings, ethics issues. Another piece of advice I'd give to you is if you do this, get a separate journal. And as you meet with the firm, just write in that journal, in your own handwriting, what were the pros and cons? What did you see? After each step, ask that same question from what I've heard and seen.

[00:15:29] Should I stop the discussions and we disengage in part as friends? Or should I go to at least the next round? Because moving can be an emotionally difficult and actually a time-consuming project. You don't want to do that unless it's truly in your best interest, but you don't want to discard options because of difficult administrative tasks. Your future is worth more than discomfort and inconvenience. And that's how you can manage it in your head is just each step.

[00:15:58] I'm going to give it 30 minutes and I'm going to look at that and say, does it make sense to justify a one-hour meeting and at the end of that one-hour meeting? Does it make sense to have a two-hour meeting? After that two-hour meeting, does it make sense to take two weekends and fill out the LPQ, which stands for long and painful questionnaire, which is, by the way, that's one of the reasons I have somebody on my staff, one of her jobs as a full-time colleague is to help really take that LPQ document. Give us one you did with a different firm. You can redact it if you want. We're going to keep it confidential.

[00:16:29] And she transcribes that data to make it easy. But it is a chore. And as you get to that point, you need to look at, is it worth it for me to take this time? And I've seen some people, when I initially talk with them, I'll take a meeting. I don't think I'm going to leave. But then after they get to know that firm and they see the opportunity, they realize it is worth it to go through that chore because your future self will thank you. So as you look, and one final piece of advice, as you look at an option, I tell people have a calibrated eye.

[00:16:58] Have a critical eye to it. Try to rule it out. As you look at that firm, the first round meeting, look for reasons to disconnect with it. Look for reasons to disengage. Try to rule it out. Look for fixed incompatibilities. I really need an office in London. They don't have one. It's just not a fit because I do so much work over there. Those sorts of things. And if you can't rule it out, then as you go forward, rule it in. And by the way, I've got to give credit to the person that shared that concept with me. One of my friendly competitors, Bill Vahoska, a really good tech legal partner recruiter

[00:17:27] on the West Coast. If you're on the West Coast, Bill Vahoska is great. Anyways, he shared that idea with me. So I've got to give him credit for that. Rule it out and then rule it in. And then other things you need to understand. Look at the firm's integration protocols. How do they integrate you into the firm? And that's something you can even ask before you fill out the LPQ. Tell me about the staff this new potential firm has that helps people integrate into the firm. Another tip, if you know people there that are friends of yours, once you've had that first round

[00:17:57] and you're okay reaching out to people, go ahead and call them and say, hey, I'm thinking about your firm. What do you think? Do your own research. And then finally, the clients. In fact, that's something I'd actually move to the front of the consideration. Of course, I had one candidate, a partner, a very successful group leader. He said, I want to move. I made a decision and he had good reasons to move. And I presented him to four firms. And he looked at three on his own because I knew what he wanted as he ruled them out.

[00:18:25] He had two options left and they were both my suggestions to him. And he asked me, he said, which options should I take? And I said, I'm never going to answer that question. I don't want to get in trouble if it doesn't work out. I said, you need to ask yourself this question. Which opportunity is best for your clients? When you have a firm that's really good for your clients, it will be good for you too. That's the suggestion I have for you in that regard. If I can help you, please feel free to reach out.

[00:18:51] If you go to our show notes, I actually put my calendar link on there. Even if you work in different practices, like I said, I work among the MLA 100 and 200 and even smaller firms in major markets nationally. Even if you don't have a book, I'm happy to talk with you. I'm happy to refer you to other people that I might be able to help. The only thing I don't do, just so you know, is in-house. And I don't really know a lot of recruiters that do that for referral purposes. But if you work in a law firm and if you've thought about making a move, go to that resource, partnersonthemove.com.

[00:19:20] If you take that quiz, and like I said, you can take it without filling any information in. And you want to talk with me, just reach out to me via email or through the show. Just go to the podcast show notes and just go ahead and book time on my calendar. I hope that this helps you. This is a little bit different than a lot of the shows I've done. And I'm a member of the National Association of Legal Search Consultants. I was on the board for seven years. So I know a lot of other friendly competitors.

[00:19:46] And I'm happy to refer you to people that might be a good fit if I can't help you at all. So anyways, I hope this has given you some advice. Thanks for listening. And I'll talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to the Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com. To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting,

[00:20:14] or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com. Thank you.