TRP 311: [Legal] What In-House Counsel Really Want from Law Firm Events with Val Madamba

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high-stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love. You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thank you for joining me on the show. This is part of our Sometimes Tuesdays legal-specific series of shows that benefit those people that just work in the legal industry.

[00:00:36] Let me ask you a question. If you work in a law firm, have you ever put on or attended events where you invite your clients and client prospects? Well, if you have or are thinking about doing that, then this show is going to give you some insight that will make it much more effective for you and how you can build closer relationships with your clients and client prospects. Our special guest today is a repeat podcast guest, Val Madamba. Val is a former regulatory lawyer turned presentation strategist and designer

[00:01:05] who helps legal industry experts articulate their ideas with clarity, confidence, and authority. Our topic title for today is What In-House Counsel Really Want from Law Firm Events. I know you're going to get some great ideas from our conversation today. She also references a research study that she did, and the findings of those are what we discussed today. If you go to the show notes wherever you hear this podcast, you'll be able to connect directly with Val,

[00:01:32] as well as get access to that special report. So make sure you do that, and I know this conversation is going to give you helpful ideas. Here's another announcement. On May 14th and 15th, the Managing Partner Lab will be held in New York City, put on by SurePoint. The Managing Partner Lab is a collaborative two-day in-person workshop designed exclusively for managing partners and executive directors of law firms. Go to the show notes. You'll get more information, and we'll be able to sign up there directly.

[00:02:02] As always, this podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights, formerly known as Leopard Solutions, turning legal intelligence into opportunity. And the show is also sponsored by The Rainmaking Magazine. Don't lose business to the competition. Read this publication and keep business development top of mind. Visit therainmakingmagazine.com today to chart your course to greater rainmaking success.

[00:02:30] Thanks for listening, and I hope you get some great ideas from my conversation with Val today. Hey, this is Scott Love with The Rainmaking Podcast. Our guest today is Val Madamba, and we're talking about what in-house counsel really want from law firm events. Val, thanks for coming back on the show again. Thank you so much for having me, Scott. I'm thrilled to be here.

[00:02:52] Yeah, I'm excited to have you on again and hear about this special report that you did about what in-house counsel really want. And so before we dig into this, I wanted to get a definition from you. What is a law firm event? Why is that important? And then I want to find out about the report that you did. Yeah, it's a great question. Good, good place to start. I think law firm events encompass a whole lot.

[00:03:17] There's the content-driven events, the kind of practice group summits, the quarterly or annual updates that a lot of us as in-house counsel, as lawyers, or as prospects and clients go to. It's client events as well, which can also look a whole bunch of different ways, right? So that could be the client dinners, that could be roundtables as well. So they can be large versus intimate.

[00:03:45] These can even be community partnerships and roundtables in association with other organizations that are more meant for visibility and brand awareness, community engagement. So events can look a whole lot of different ways, but they're all meant in some way to activate someone, to build some kind of positioning and relationship.

[00:04:10] And, you know, I think we're going to get a lot more into it as we discuss the report, but it always is tied or should be tied to some kind of strategic objective that the firm has. That's interesting. That's interesting. And so tell us about your research and report on this. Tell us about the report and then how did you actually get all the data for the report? Yeah, so the report, as you mentioned, well, it's called What In-House Counsel Want and Need from Law Firm Events.

[00:04:39] So I had been for a number of years in my consultancy working with law firms and with individual attorneys on their presentations. Really in that content focused bucket or pillar of events, CLEs, webinars and things like that.

[00:04:57] And the really persistent challenge is bridging the gap between legal content and the value of the speaker and their topic with what the clients actually need, what their prospects actually need. And it was so, you know, when we're preparing for events like this, we just run out of time. We have the best intentions as speakers, as hosts.

[00:05:23] We want to focus on what's going to be most valuable for our audiences and our clients. But it just seems like we never have enough time to really dig into what that is. And coming from legal practice myself, I was a regulatory lawyer and a consultant for 16 years, 16 plus years. And I had been going to a lot of events myself.

[00:05:45] And myself never really took the time to think about why, when I left these events, did they often seem kind of disappointing? Or I felt even more confused than I was before I entered, even though I always came in with high hopes.

[00:06:05] And so it was for me a moment to just come back to basics about how to bridge that gap and how to help really in-house lawyers and their outside counsel better connect and better understand each other and ultimately use events to better serve both sides. That's great. And I like the fact that it's a potent, finite point in time when people are coming there with very clear expectations.

[00:06:35] Nobody ever shows up to an event and, oh my gosh, look at all these people here. I mean, they know what it's all about, who's going to be there. I'm actually going to DealMax in Las Vegas and I'm looking at the attendee list, 3,200 people there. I'm going to now next week and you can see who the attendee list is. A lot of the times those putting on events, at least on the association side, put their attendee list on there. But we're talking about law firm events or are we talking about law firm events that they attend that associations put on? What type of events specifically are we talking about now?

[00:07:05] Yeah, for this research and just to go back to your previous question, the research took the form of a survey as well as my one-on-one interviews with in-house lawyers. And so these lawyers were in or are in all kinds of different organizations across the globe, but primarily in the U.S. and Europe. And for the purposes of these conversations, we really focus on events that law firms host.

[00:07:35] But I think a lot of the principles go to conferences beyond law firm and practice group summits, any kind of gathering that's meant to bring people together for some kind of education and conversation. Got it. Okay, that's good. So going along this line, can we kind of get a list of what are the different types of law firm events? You mentioned some of the ones before, like practice group summits. If we could have like a laundry list of the top so many law firm events, what are they?

[00:08:03] Yeah, so I would stick to the practice group summits as kind of the leaders in the kind of content pillar. And then a lot of firms and practice groups, maybe it's a sort of subset, but client-specific events. So that might be with a handful of clients within a practice group just to discuss, you know, benchmarking or patterns or updates, right, that are relevant to them.

[00:08:30] And they often are combined with a sort of just purely social element. So that can be a client dinner, even a client retreat in some cases. And then finally, there's, again, more of the brand awareness and visibility, more general purpose events, which can be educational, but can also go into adjacent discussions like wellness and other community questions. Got it. Good.

[00:08:58] And so what are some of the benefits that law firms and partners and other attorneys in those firms, associates, what are the benefits for them by hosting these types of events? Yeah, well, I think today community is more important than ever. I think it's been important forever, but especially in the last couple of years as we've been finally free to meet up again. And a lot of people are just craving, you know, that in-person energy.

[00:09:28] But, you know, events, of course, do and will continue to encompass all formats. And so it is in-person, but it's also still virtual and still going to be virtual. But I think just presence and being face-to-face and getting that kind of face time. But I think one of the main benefits is starting that conversation right away.

[00:09:54] And it's one of the shifts that I encourage folks to take when they're thinking about how to plan and design their events. You know, I'm sure you've been to plenty of conferences that are organized in the more lecture-focused way, right? They start with the topic. And, of course, that's meant to be helpful. You know, I've, in my past life, when I was trying to figure out how to get my presentation career and my speaking career going,

[00:10:23] of course, I did start with the topics that were most interesting to me. I thought that would be helpful. But what I encourage people to shift to now is to start the conversation right away. So smaller events, roundtables, rather than just pure lectures are, I think, really where it's at. That's great. And what did you find in the findings? What were some of the things that really surprised you through your research, Val? Yeah.

[00:10:52] And, you know, like I said, I had been in-house. I had been in practice for quite a long time before, before becoming a consultant in presentations and events. And so I had my experience to base this on. But one finding or one comment that I kept hearing that I didn't really expect was one about the audience that many law firm events are serving.

[00:11:19] And that's the general counsel, which is not surprising, right, from a business development perspective. If you're trying to connect with prospects who are in legal, it makes sense, right? You would want to target the GC. But it's not always the GCs that are the ultimate decision makers or who are the ones who are really looking out for prospective external counsel to bring in.

[00:11:47] I think that we see a lot of GC-focused events like GC roundtables, you know, GC kind of discussions, which are great. But the kind of missing segment that I found that seems to be underserved is this sort of senior specialist, like let's say senior employment counsel who don't have any desire to become GC at any point.

[00:12:13] And the message I kept getting from them is that we're looking for events. We are highly ambitious. We really understand the landscape very well. And we're the ones who are kind of drafting the short lists of potential outside counsel. But no firm seem to be putting on events that are meant for us at the right level of sophistication.

[00:12:35] They're able to find kind of 101 level and then just GC events that one employment counsel told me she couldn't even get into. You know, she had to make a special request to get into this GC event that would have been perfect for her and would have helped her to elevate her career. And I think that, again, is like a segment that we, from the law firm perspective, could be serving a whole lot better to create value for them and enhance our visibility and thought leadership with them too.

[00:13:04] So there's opportunity there, I'm sure. For sure. For sure. Yeah. It surprised me, like I said, but I had lived that exact experience because I was a lawyer who was not ever going to be general counsel because it wasn't part of my ambition. I was a very focused niche regulatory practitioner. And as I was talking to folks for this research, it just dawned on me that it should have been really clear to me based on my own experience. That's interesting.

[00:13:32] Do you think it's because a lot of them think, well, the decisions are made at the corner office. That's where I should spend my business focus. What do you think? Oh, definitely. And it's not that GCs and heads of legal are not a completely reasonable candidate to be reaching out to. Absolutely. You got to develop those connections. And they're going to sign off ultimately on that decision for specialized counsel.

[00:13:57] But the folks who are doing that evaluation and who are going to be the right hand influencers to that decision are going to be those specialized kind of senior counsel. That's interesting. I've always heard from other people on the show that say, if you want to get, if you're an attorney, a partner at a law firm, you want to make sure that your clients or client prospect CFO is involved in the decision. What do you think about that in the context of law firm meetings?

[00:14:27] Yeah, I mean, I think that that makes a lot of sense. And just depending on your the people that you generally serve and work with. And if that makes sense based on the decisions that you are privy to and that you advise on, it just shows that you understand the landscape of players and how everyday decisions are made.

[00:14:49] And so, like, let's say in the in the context of the kind of regulatory work I used to do, the right teams to be involved, the people who needed to be cultivated might not be the CFO, but might be the COO, CEO outside of the GC, the director of regulatory affairs, for example.

[00:15:08] But to your point, I think that, yes, it's crucial that you think more expansively beyond just the head of legal and look to show your savvy and awareness of who else needs to be at the table. That's great. So we've talked about the what the different types. You've talked about the who should come to these conferences. Let's talk about the when. When do you think firms should host these events? What's the frequency of hosting these events? Should it be an annual event themed the same way year after year?

[00:15:37] What are some other observations that you report shared, Val, that your report showed you? Yeah. Oh, I love that. The question about cadence, because I do see a lot of practice groups having an annual kind of flagship event that they do. And, you know, that might be I mean, I see them all over the calendar early spring, early fall as people are back from from summers.

[00:16:03] And so I think that the really important question to think about in terms of cadence is every year, ask the same question. Why are we having this event this year? And that answer is never going to be the same year over year.

[00:16:21] What I find a lot of events strategists and leads doing is they have so much responsibility for just putting pulling off the logistics of their very, very packed events calendar that they don't really have enough time to just step back and say, do we need to do this event this year? And if we do, what is the end game?

[00:16:47] What is ultimately the strategy and what do these clients or prospects need right now? And that is going to evolve if not every year. I mean, even more frequently, right? Quarter to quarter. And sometimes the format or the content focus might be, if not irrelevant, could feel outdated, could need a refresh.

[00:17:11] So I really recommend just stepping back before going on autopilot and identifying why now and what is this really for? Yeah, that's great. So I've got some other questions related to this, but are there any other significant insights that came from your report that you'd like to share with us now? Yeah. Well, I think I'll just share one of the main statistics.

[00:17:37] A big number that jumped out to me is that almost 70% of the folks that I surveyed and talked to, 68%, they told me that an event they'd been to was disappointing because it felt too broad or generic for their needs.

[00:17:56] And I think this really tracks with the sort of default approach to start planning events based on what we as the lawyers or as the hosts feel is most interesting.

[00:18:10] And if we haven't taken the time to really dive into what specific audience we're trying to serve, what that audience is, and then what challenges they need from our events, we're going to get into, again, that autopilot mode, which is just giving them the whole landscape of legal and regulatory updates without curating it and customizing it to what they really need right now.

[00:18:37] And so I think it's no wonder then that this observation bubbled up, that the content feels so generic and kind of for everyone and not serving anyone. That's interesting. What about going to the how? Let's say we've got our date, we've got our theme, we've got the location, we know the people we're targeting, we're going to take some of the ideas we learned from Val Madama's report,

[00:19:03] and we're going to target some of those mid-level specialists within the company that may not be at the corner office level, but they are the decision makers, they're the decision influencers, we're doing all this. Let's say we've got our date, we're sending out our registrations, what should be other things on law firms, CMOs, and even the partners' mind in terms of how they promote this event? And then what do they do once the event starts? What are some other ideas and tips that you have for us in that regard, Val?

[00:19:33] Yeah, I think overall, when we look at what an event is, I think we need to think about it less as a one-time event, right? Or as a one-off thing that is happening at a point in time, and as just a part of the conversation we want with a specific type of person or segment, right?

[00:19:56] And that means that we need to do something before and after, and we need to plug our events into some form of overall system.

[00:20:07] And so it doesn't need to be overwrought or feel inaccessible or complicated, but this can just mean before we nail down the agenda, actually taking time to think about three top clients or prospects that we would love to have attend and build this into our business development and into our touch points.

[00:20:29] And make some time to say, hey, I'm thinking about, or I'm planning to do this CLE or this session at our upcoming summit. I would love to get your thoughts and hear more about, you know, what's coming up for you and does this feel like the right direction?

[00:20:45] And I love this as a touch point because it's real, you know, and I mean, you've probably heard and then in your conversations with everyone else struggling with business development, you know, it's hard to find an excuse to reach out. But this is a really high value one that serves everyone. So I think that doing that kind of pre-work leading up to event to inform your approach, your content, your focus, even your format is so crucial.

[00:21:14] So that's one pretty simple shift that I always recommend. That's great. I think looking for reasons to have that touch point, this is a good reason. We're having a conference in July that's going to be at this resort. We're going to golf the day before. And I wanted to call and see if you'd like to sit on a panel with me on this topic or something like that. Let me ask you this. What about actually getting the clients involved in presenting at the firm's conferences? What do you think about that? Is that a good idea, a bad idea?

[00:21:44] What are your thoughts about that, Val? It's a fantastic idea. And it's actually one of the pieces of feedback that I heard multiple times in this research that in-house counsel, they had gone to multiple law firm events and sitting in front of or hearing panels. They were surprised to see very, very little or minimal representation from the in-house world in those panels.

[00:22:09] And as I've been reviewing more and more law firm events, I have seen a lot of that. I have seen a lot of panels that are just within the bubble of the firm itself.

[00:22:21] And it's not that I want firms to diminish their thought leadership or hold themselves back, but creating a space for the voice of the client, the voice of the segment you're trying to serve creates more balanced conversation and shows that you see them. So that's one pretty accessible way to make panels far more effective.

[00:22:47] And I think that anything you can do to create more direct interaction and conversation within an event is going to be a good thing. I think that's great. And one other aspect of what you mentioned, and this comes from Dr. Robert Cialdini. He's an author. He's written books on influence. I got to know him and his wife years and years ago, and I've really studied his concepts. He mentions that there's a principle called commitment and consistency.

[00:23:17] When people are committed to taking action on something, then if they actually are consistent in their actions to something, then they're more committed to that idea or that concept. If an in-house counsel, whether it's mid-level specialist or C-level executive, comes and sits on the panel of that firm's retreat or practice group retreat, then I would think that person is more committed to working with them because they actually sat on the panel. They spoke there.

[00:23:43] What do you think about that, Val, in terms of kind of connecting all those dots in that regard? Oh, I think that is absolutely spot on. It's something, it's a pattern I see at all levels. You know, even if I am doing an event or a talk and I just make sure, like, let's say I arrive early just to make a little bit of time to sit and breathe and make a little bit of connection with the people in the room.

[00:24:11] Then what I'm going to see is that the people I had a moment to connect with, even if it had nothing to do with the substance of the talk, they're going to be some of the most engaged from there on, but then thereafter the event as well. And they're going to have the most questions. If I need volunteers, it's generally their hands that are going to go up. And so, you know, people want to interact with, want to buy from, and want to continue conversations with people.

[00:24:39] So it really is about that connection. This is great. Well, I think you've really hit the nail on the head in terms of giving law firms an edge. How can they get an edge in client development? And by thinking about their events and being more deliberate and intentional and taking the ideas from your research, they'll be able to grow their connections and their trust with their clients and their client prospects, which is what everybody wants. So thank you for being here today, Val, and sharing this.

[00:25:07] And before we kind of go into your expertise, I wanted to really find out that there are three action steps people can take to implement these ideas. What would those three steps be, Val? Okay, great. So yes, three practical action steps to start. One, I think at the strategy level. So if you're looking at your event calendar or your event approach and you feel like there is opportunity to refresh,

[00:25:35] just pause and think about where you could do a little bit less. And again, ask yourself, why now? Like we talked about before, what has strategically changed? How is this audience different than they were last year? And how can I provide something that they really cannot get anywhere else?

[00:25:58] Especially in the age of AI, where most of your prospects and clients are very savvy about identifying the information they need. How can you create a conversation in your event strategy that they can't get anywhere else? Whether that's because you provided access to certain people that they can't easily access anywhere else,

[00:26:21] or you're just giving them space and time to engage with some challenging questions in a safe space. Even that is a major luxury, especially for very time-strapped in-house counsel and other clients. That's great, though. I love it. That's a good number one. What's number two? Yes. So I think that's strategic. It's high level if you've got the luxury of time to think about your approach.

[00:26:49] But in reality, we all have these events that are locked in. We have the agenda. The venues, it's all set, right? So we can't overhaul the approach. But even when that's the case, even if it's next week, you've got a webinar that you want to make some tweaks to improve your connection with your audience. There's always a way to do it.

[00:27:11] And even the smallest changes can make a big difference in the kind of connection you make with the people you're trying to activate. So if you've got an upcoming event, I would ask yourself, where is just one place where I can build in the feeling of a conversation? So instead of, you don't have to overhaul anything, but where could you build in a reflection question?

[00:27:38] A pull or two, or even just a scenario exercise that is based on what you do that doesn't take too much time to create. But then you can invite your audience to think about and interact with, whether they're interacting with you in a larger setting or with each other. People really value that kind of connection, especially whether they're in person or if it's virtual.

[00:28:06] And then, yeah, I would say the third step, it's going to give you a lot of inspiration and ideas for thinking about how to make your events more strategic and effective. You can find the report. I am happy to share it with everyone and anyone. The best way to find me is via LinkedIn or at my website, ValerieMadamba.com. And you can get the report that way. That's terrific.

[00:28:31] And for everybody listening, we're going to put all of Val's contact information and even the link to that report on the show notes. So if you go to the show notes, you'll be able to connect with Val directly, get that report. And Val, tell us more about your services, your offerings. What do you do? What do you have that you'd like our listeners to know about in terms of what you can do for them professionally? Yes, absolutely. So my services, my business is really arranged around two pillars.

[00:28:58] First is focusing on designing and crafting event strategy. And it does encompass any kind of gathering, whether it is a training, a webinar to a full-scale practice group summit. I work with law firms to craft events that meet their strategic goals and to also help them better align those events with their marketing, thought leadership, and business development goals.

[00:29:27] And on the other side, the other pillar is me walking the walk as a facilitator and an event host myself. So I'm always continuing to work on that facilitation skill and working on bringing people together to gather and come together better in the legal community.

[00:29:49] So I run roundtables that are intended to bring in-house counsel and outside counsel together to have a lot of conversations that they might not otherwise have space to create, especially about how to collaborate better together. Well, Val, you are unique in that you have really cornered the market on this very narrow, niched, but important area of legal business development. Thank you for sharing your insights.

[00:30:16] Thank you for sharing your report and what you've learned from that report with our guest today. Thanks so much for being on the show. Thank you so much for having me, Scott. Thank you for listening to The Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com.

[00:30:39] To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.