TRP 302: [Legal] Characteristics of High Performing Law Firms in BD with Jill Huse

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high stakes headhunter, author and professional speaker, Scott Love. You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast and my name is Scott Love. Thank you for joining me on the show. Our special guest today is Jill Huse. She's been on the show before and if you work in the legal industry, you're probably familiar with her.

[00:00:35] This is part of our ongoing series of legal specific episodes on the show. Our topic title with Jill is Characteristics of High Performing Law Firms in Business Development. Jill is the co-founder and chief strategy officer of Society54. She works in areas related to high level strategy, leadership development and coaching attorneys and business professionals on career growth and also relationship selling.

[00:01:02] Make sure you connect with Jill directly. We put her LinkedIn link and also her direct link for her website on our show notes. Connect with Jill. She'll be somebody that you want to keep in your network of people that you reach out to. Also, on May 14th and 15th, SharePoint is hosting the Managing Partner Lab in New York City. The Managing Partner Lab is a collaborative two-day in-person workshop designed exclusively for managing partners and executive directors of law firms.

[00:01:31] This is a working session built to help senior firm leaders step away from daily demands and focus on the issues that most directly influence firm performance. I'll be speaking there, so if you attend, please come up to me and say hello. I'd love to meet you.

[00:01:45] As always, this show is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights, formerly known as Leopard Solutions, turning legal intelligence into opportunity. Also, our show is sponsored by The Rainmaking Magazine. Don't lose business to the competition. Read this publication and keep business development top of mind.

[00:02:04] Visit therainmakingmagazine.com today to chart your course to greater rainmaking success. Thanks for listening, and I hope you get some great ideas from my conversation with Jill today. Hey, this is Scott Love. Our special guest, a repeat guest, is Jill Huse, and we're talking about characteristics of high-performing law firms in business development. Jill, thanks for joining me on the show today. Thank you, Scott. It's great to be here.

[00:02:31] Yeah, it is. It's good to see you again, and it was nice to run into you at the LMA conference in New York in October, and it's good to see you that you're out there in the legal community, really niched in that area. And let's kind of start with characteristics of underperforming law firms, pitfalls that law firms are making in the area of business development. What are some of the top things that come to your mind? And then we'll kind of talk about the high-performing firms.

[00:02:55] Yeah, I think the firms that aren't maybe embracing MBD are the ones that don't invest in resources. Maybe their teams are very small or non-existent, and maybe their partners are happy kind of where they are, but they're not thinking about that next generation.

[00:03:14] One of the firms that I've worked with, I had that issue where they invested in MBD. They had some resources, but the lawyers were very successful, but they weren't really thinking about the next generation of attorneys. And when they got to that place, they were thinking about themselves, right? These younger attorneys.

[00:03:33] And that's where I found the greatest niche for helping lawyers specifically is in that junior partner range of where they all of a sudden have to start developing business. And maybe it's not a legacy type of situation where they're just handed work. So I think the firms that are investing in those, you know, different resources, obviously, so they can get those MBD professionals to help them internally with some coaching and guidance.

[00:04:01] But also, you know, really thinking about what this next generation looks like, what succession planning looks like, and making sure that, you know, everybody is really thinking about those clients and the client relationship and the way to make it the most meaningful and valuable to that client. So really kind of thinking through those different things. So my question is why? Why would they just not make that a priority? Well, there's a lot of reasons.

[00:04:29] Number one, I think it all comes back to the pocket, right? Like when you're putting resources into the firm, you're taking money out of partners' pockets. So it's really important to understand the value in that. And for the longest time, marketing has been seen as overhead expenses and they haven't been seen as revenue generators. And that's true. You know, most law firms aren't having their marketing professionals do a sales type of role.

[00:04:57] But the support that comes with that is growth. And it's really important that law firms understand that they do have to invest in some of these resources in order to sustain growth and, you know, develop those deep attorney relationships. It is an expense at the front end, but it pays off in the latter.

[00:05:19] I think the other thing on the client side that attorneys aren't doing because they're maybe traditionally raised to not hoard clients, but, you know, protect those relationships. They don't see when maybe there is a very insular view of that client engagement. And, you know, that client is then at risk for loss.

[00:05:43] When you're not trying to integrate the client in several different components of the law firm where they can become sticky, you have the portability to take it to another client. So you're thinking about yourself, but you're not thinking about the firm. And it's a big red flag when there is an insular situation happening with a client that that could go away. And maybe it's not, you know, due to you leaving.

[00:06:07] It could be just due to the client maybe brought on something, someone different to lead an effort and they change their law firms or they're cutting expenses. There's a lot of different reasons for clients changing, but we need to be kind of like super engaged in making sure that we're talking to our clients often about their business and how we can add value. That's interesting.

[00:06:32] Do you think larger firms, because of their size and resources, do they always have an advantage over smaller firms? What do you think about that? That's an interesting thought. I do think that there are some advantages. They do have more resources. When we look at like firms that are doing client feedback programs, it's usually the larger firms that are doing that. And I think the reason for that is because you do have multiple institutional touch points with clients.

[00:07:01] So you want to make sure that you're doing a good job for, you know, those broad swath of clients. And sometimes you don't know. And the larger firms have really invested in client feedback programs where smaller firms are somewhat, you know, a little bit more shy to do that because of the cost that's associated with it. So I definitely think there is something around that.

[00:07:22] There's also, you know, a couple of my friends in the community are really engaged in client experience at their firms, which is a whole new job. Like we were talking about a little bit ago, you know, firms are kind of creating new opportunities for their professional staff. And client experience is something that firms are also kind of signaling, especially the bigger firms, that this is important. And we need to be, you know, having somebody really focused on the client experience.

[00:07:52] What does that mean when you say I understand client feedback systems, but what do you mean by client experience? How would you define that? Well, client experience is individualized to each particular client, right? So it's what kind of experience are they having with a firm? Is it a consistent experience? Is it, are they getting the right type of communication to meet their needs? Are we exceeding expectations on a client by client level?

[00:08:18] So really thinking about what is important to this client and what do we need to be doing to make sure that we're exceeding those expectations and driving value. And value is different for every client. So their expectations are different, but also what value means is different. Some people term value just in the pure sense of what I'm getting for my dollar. Other people have a different meaning of what value is to them. Maybe it's responsiveness.

[00:08:46] Maybe it's, you know, inclusion and different things. So there's, there's different things and you really have to find out for each particular client that you're trying to grow and foster. What does value mean to them and what will help their business drive impact? Yeah. And I can see in a hyper competitive market when law firms are getting busy, even the whole recruiting landscape. Somebody recruits your star performer, your number one rainmaker away.

[00:09:14] And all of a sudden your clients go with that person and you just haven't done as good of a job in trying to keep the clients there. So that's interesting how the client experience concept can add value to people. What do you think in kind of looking at the positive things firms are doing? Kind of give me an example of a firm that you've worked with. You don't have to mention their name, but what was their situation when you started working with them? What were the changes that they made and how has that benefited them? Well, I won't tell you specifically about clients.

[00:09:43] I'm going to tell you a little bit about my friends who have done exceptional things. And they're also clients, but maybe not something that I had a part in. And one of my friends who is also an amazing client, she drove a whole initiative around a client advisory board, which I thought was revolutionary.

[00:10:03] Like she had clients come in and they still have this of, you know, giving some meaningful feedback into what the law firm looks like and how they would like to be engaged as clients. So there was, you know, real direction from clients to make impact on the firm. What I was talking about a little bit ago is, you know, making sure that we're helping our clients succeed. But they brought the clients in to help them succeed, which I thought was really powerful.

[00:10:30] Another friend who is also a client has done a whole billing engagement exercise, like a full day experience where they went through the billing process to find gaps and holes and things that can be improved. And they made that then a best practice for other clients they work with. So they really worked like one on one with with one client and then made that more successful for other clients.

[00:10:58] So just kind of thinking differently, I think, is really important. I think as law firms, we're kind of challenged to think differently on things. And, you know, that's not going to exponentially change the trajectory of the firm's success unless we are thinking differently. And I've seen, as you have as well in recent news about law firms just deciding to close up. I've seen that up close and personal when I was living in Washington.

[00:11:27] And I remember there's an IP firm, probably about 30 attorneys that just decided to close up. They just didn't want to keep growing. And I think they lost their way. They didn't look at getting younger attorneys on board. And I know it's a pretty big problem, a pretty big solution as well. But I think when a firm has the vision of growth and they know they've got to identify those future star performers and start investing assets and resources to helping them build their own practices, they're doing something right.

[00:11:57] So kind of speak to that. Let's say there's a senior associate up and coming partner that law firm leadership that says this is the future of our firm. What do you think that firm should be doing with that attorney in terms of business development? Well, I would love to see that more often. I think that firms are scared to identify those people because it is a very flat organization.

[00:12:20] So a lot of times people aren't tapped on the shoulder and saying, we want to invest in you and we think it's important that we do that investment in you. So I would love to see that happen. I don't see that happening nearly enough. In fits and spurts, maybe within a practice area, you may have a practice group leader who takes, you know, somebody under their wing, but it's not formalized in a way that, you know, they're thinking about the succession of leadership, which I think is really important thing that you mentioned.

[00:12:49] A lot of times within law firms, they put people in leadership that have the biggest book of business, which is counterintuitive to what they should be doing. The people that have the biggest book of business are busy and sometimes they aren't the best leaders. They're not the best managers. And it's important, like, that you make that space for them to be leaders and be good managers.

[00:13:12] And that sometimes requires them not doing as much billable work, which, you know, like is difficult for people that are the drivers of the business development. So I think it's important that firms are thinking about what that leadership model looks like, how they are tapping the right people, making sure that they have the resources that they need to be successful in those roles.

[00:13:35] And then giving them the space to actually, you know, do the job so that, you know, they feel like they're empowered to do the job. They feel like they can make the decisions to do the job. They have the authority behind them to, you know, call out their peers when they're not, you know, doing something and hold them accountable for things. And they're not so pressed with other billable work that they are able to continue to do the management side as well. Right.

[00:14:04] So what do you think partners should expect of their business development and marketing team? If they're a partner with an Amlaw 100, 200, or even below that firm, and they know we've got capable people that are in our business development and marketing teams, what should their expectations be of that team? I think it depends on the size of the team and what you can expect.

[00:14:25] If you do have a larger team, we're always trying to get to the point of being proactive versus reactive in a marketing business development team function. Most often we are reactive. We're just drinking from a fire hose and we're inside firms and we're helping them with whatever comes that day. And this could be a small firm or this could be a large firm. It's pretty consistent that we're just a reactive group. But we don't want to be reactive. We want to be proactive.

[00:14:54] Everybody I talk to that's in the marketing development side likes the strategy. They like to be, you know, thinking about the problem and fixing the problem and coming up with new alternatives. But as we know, law firms are sometimes very slow to change. So, you know, I remember when I was in-house, like getting something to actually effectuate change took quite a campaign.

[00:15:19] I had to do my research, you know, figure out exactly what the right solution was. Then I had to find my champion internally that could help me sell it. And then I had to do a campaign around what the adoption of something like that looked like. So it's a very long process. And it wasn't just like going to the management partner and saying, hey, we're going to do this next week. It was, no, who's going to help me champion this internally?

[00:15:43] And are they going to be kind of like my spokesperson to help me drive it? Because it does need an implementation, you know, force to be effective. We need to kind of think about what that looks like as well. Yeah, great. So let's just say there's a practice group leader. It's himself, maybe one or two partners and three associates, a couple of paralegals doing seven to eight million a year.

[00:16:09] And he says, you know, I don't want to leave my firm because I'd be conflicted out if I went anywhere else or for whatever reason. But I'm doing well. But I'm just not reaching my potential in terms of marketing and business development. And I'm not happy with my firm's marketing and business development team. What should that person do? How should they have that conversation with leadership or marketing people? Or should they just hire a consultant and kind of do their own thing within the firm? What do you think about that?

[00:16:37] I think coaching is a great avenue for people that feel like they're at that place where they could do more with their BD efforts. Just being able to talk to somebody and talk through options, I think, has been really effective. You know, what I've seen at least as a business development coach. When I was internal, I was also a business development coach. So I would talk to your internal team first and see if there's anybody that does enjoy the coaching side of things.

[00:17:05] Sometimes you may not feel comfortable, you know, sharing some things that you would typically feel more comfortable from an outside consultant. And that's where I've found a lot of joy in helping attorneys. And we talk about everything. It's not just business development. It's, you know, what is impacting you on a daily basis that's, you know, keeping you from doing the things that you want to do from a business development context.

[00:17:30] So there's other challenges that you have to work through just to get to the place where you can, you know, start to do more of the sales side of things. And that could be like making sure that you have a solid team in place. Like thinking through, you know, once I get the business, am I actually able to, you know, do the business? Is there people in place that can help me? Because I got to set that up first. I have to have everything in place so I know that I can go out there and effectively sell because clients want that too. They want to know that that's not just you.

[00:17:59] You have, you know, other people that can be helping you. So really kind of thinking about things a little bit differently again and, you know, challenging them. And I think that that's where our coach can kind of come in and, you know, talk about what's worked with other people and what's been successful. And just because this is something I always found really interesting was when, especially when I was in the law firm, we had a couple of rainmakers that, you know, everybody would kind of look to.

[00:18:25] And the junior partners and associates would always feel like they had to emulate what those successful attorneys were doing. And that's not the case. Like everybody has their own way of doing things, approaching things. And you can be successful in lots of different directions from a business development context. It doesn't mean that you have to be glad handing or, you know, always out there networking or writing a ton of things.

[00:18:50] It's really finding what is truly innately special about you and then, you know, going in that direction to help promote those types of things and making sure that you're consistent with those efforts. Right. And regarding thought leadership, because you mentioned about some things that I just thought, well, let's kind of go down that path a little bit more. What are the expectations a partner should have about thought leadership and getting support from their internal teams?

[00:19:18] So that also varies based on the size of the firm and whether or not you have PR support. So if you do have a PR firm, they can help you get placed. They can help you get opportunities where you're an expert mention in something where this is my favorite way to do things is where a reporter calls me and asks me questions. And then they take something that I've said and, you know, it shows up somewhere versus me spending a lot of time developing an article and, you know, kind of like sourcing the opportunity myself.

[00:19:48] So a PR firm is a great resource to kind of help you, you know, find that find where your niche aligns with something that you're trying to promote. If you don't have a PR firm, it's a little bit different. You may have a marketing person that does have some ties in the community and it's kind of thinking through, you know, what are those different opportunities?

[00:20:08] Like trade publications are really great if you don't have a PR firm and you do have just a marketing person that's kind of helping you with this because you can get in front of people and they're usually looking for content. So that would be one avenue to kind of go through. Another one that we use and I love is JD Supra. It's not very costly and they will publish, you know, what you write and really curate it to the audience that they're sending it out to.

[00:20:36] So those are some different opportunities that they could look into. There's other ones, but I think JD Supra is really great because they can see, they show the analytics on things. So you can see who's reading your things and, you know, who's commenting and engaging. LinkedIn also has that feature as well where you can publish things and see, you know, who is reading things if you pay for the premium subscription, I believe. Those are great ideas, Jill. Thanks for being on the show.

[00:21:02] And as we kind of bring things to a close, I always like to end them with three action steps. What would be three action steps you'd recommend people take to really start emulating these characteristics of high-performing firms in the marketing and business development areas? I'd say the first one is be reading as much as you can, doing research. I think research is a lost art as it relates to business intelligence.

[00:21:24] Lawyers are great about researching things, but not especially so great about, you know, thinking through the industry, the trends, what their clients may be experiencing. Second, I would say is to nurture your network. And this is not just, you know, the people that you met in law school, but your clients, your internal clients, the colleagues that you work with. Who are the people that can kind of help you reach your goals and get to that next place?

[00:21:51] And then I'm going to end with something that person that I've worked with for years. His name is Peter Johnson. He's another consultant. He says all the time, and I think it's just really wise. And it's just because it's common sense, it's not common practice. And I think that that's really great because, you know, when we start off trainings, people will say like, yeah, you didn't really tell me anything. I don't know. And I'm like, exactly. We didn't. This is all stuff that you could be doing, but you're not doing it.

[00:22:20] So it really does take, you know, thinking about things, developing a plan, holding yourself accountable. Maybe that's finding like a buddy that you can have an accountability partner with, or maybe it's using an internal resource at your firm. But that's where we see from a business development context, people fall is the follow through, the follow up. If you put a proposal out and you don't hear anything, you've got to follow through with that and find out why you didn't get the work. It could help you get the next opportunity that comes your way.

[00:22:49] So making sure that you're following up on your opportunities, but also, you know, staying connected within your network so it's authentic when you do reach out. That's great. I love that. Research and reading, nurture your network, following through and following up. Those are really good pieces of advice, Jill. So tell us more about what you do. What are the offering services that your company has that you'd like to share with our listeners, Jill? Yeah. So Society54, we've been in business for a little over 11 years.

[00:23:17] And our core practice is around coaching and training from a business development context. But we also do management, consulting, leadership coaching. And also, we have a talent division where we work with MBD teams and we're basically extensions of their workforce. If they have a maternity leave coming up or a gap in service of some capacity, we have people that have been inside of law firms and they kind of step in and help them. And then the third thing around what we do is kind of a marrying of the two and it's around technology.

[00:23:46] And we have a technology product that helps both the MBD departments stay project oriented. So it's a project management software. And it also is a gamified platform for attorneys on their business development goals to stay accountable to what those things look like. And because it's gamified, attorneys like it because there's a competition component.

[00:24:07] And that's been like the biggest aha moment for me just working with law firms is how competitive they are in making that competition fun. So it's not like cutthroat. It's more around the fun because then they are really engaged and you are able to kind of change behavior. That's interesting, Jill. I think I'd like to have you back on the show talking about gaming and gamifying business development internally. What do you think about that is another topic in the future? Sounds great.

[00:24:36] Well, everybody listening for that in the future will have Jill back. You can reach out to her. Just go to the show notes. You'll find all of her contact info there. Jill, thanks again for being a great guest on the show. Look forward to talking to you again in the future. Thanks, Scott. You as well. Thank you for listening to the Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com.

[00:25:05] To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.