TRP 292: Act Like an Owner: Five Unlocks for Creating Culture People Love and Results Leaders Need with Greg Hawks

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high-stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love. You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thank you for joining me on the show. If you want to be an effective rainmaker, think of your focus areas to include these three areas. Number one, you've got to be really good at your practice.

[00:00:37] If you're an attorney, you've got to be number one in the world within your area of specialization. Number two, you've got to be good at getting the clients. Earning trust from clients and prospective clients so that they call you, they seek you out. And number three, this is equally as important, you've got to have good team leadership skills. And ladies and gentlemen, that's what we're talking about today. We're interviewing Greg Hawks, who's an author and a professional speaker specializing in the area of culture transformation.

[00:01:05] And today we're talking about his book, Act Like an Owner, Five Unlocks for Creating Culture People Love and Results Leaders Need. I've read this book. I'd highly recommend it. We go into his structure and the concepts that he shares that I think you're going to appreciate very much. Make sure you connect with Greg. Go to the show notes. You'll be able to connect with him directly and order his book directly. And like I said, I highly recommend that you get this book.

[00:01:30] As always, this podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights, formerly known as Leopard Solutions, turning legal intelligence into opportunity. And also by The Rainmaking Magazine. Don't lose business to the competition. Read this publication and keep business development top of mind. Visit therainmakingmagazine.com today to chart your course to greater rainmaking success. Thanks for listening and I hope you get some great ideas from my conversation with Greg Hawks today.

[00:02:00] Hi, this is Scott Love with The Rainmaking Podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, you've got a special treat in store for you today. Our guest is Greg Hawks. He's a successful author and speaker. And our topic title is, Act Like an Owner. Greg, thanks for joining me on the show today. Are you kidding, Scott? I love being here with you and love getting to see you and just appreciate your friendship so much. Thank you. Likewise. And it's good to have you back on the show. And I really appreciate your wisdom.

[00:02:26] I know you're very active on social media and I learn a lot just by following you on the web. But more importantly, I like the book that you just wrote and just released, Act Like an Owner, Five Unlocks for Creating Culture, People Love and Results Leaders Need. And so let me ask you this question. What does that mean for those that are leading teams? What the heck? That's right. What is it? What's going on? What the heck? What does that mean? Well, the overarching concept is really in all of life.

[00:02:56] Of course, I work with businesses and I consult and speak and those kind of partner with them. But in all of life where you and I and people, if they would act like an owner in every aspect of their life, we live in a society and in workplaces where people are just too used to making excuses, blaming others, blaming situations, circumstances. So this idea of like, how do we act like an owner? It came from my history. I've owned investment properties for the last 25 years.

[00:03:26] It's kind of a side hustle. Single family homes has been my preference and I'm a buy and hold. So and I landlord of a lot of those, Scott, like I interacted with the people. I was interviewing tenants and all of that and dealing with all of the issues that came from that. And I realized kind of in that context that there were people who lived in some of my homes who were renting my homes, but who treated it like they own the home. They treated it better than I did the way they took care of the lawn, the way they took it.

[00:03:53] I was like, these guys really have an owner's mindset about this property, just like I do. And then there were others who were renting and they were just doing what they did. They needed the home for their family or for themselves just as transitional. They were like, I don't know what I'm doing this season of life. And so they just used it for what they needed it for. And there's nothing wrong with renting, right? Like that's a necessary element, depending on your season of life, depending on where you're at, all that.

[00:04:21] So I was like, you know, there's some people who just show up to work and just are renting. And, you know, statistically, it's literally every other person in the workplace. So but then the third group, I have owners, renters and then vandals. What's a vandals? There are people who lived in my home and literally destroyed it, had no concern for the effect, didn't take responsibility for holes in walls, ruined carpets, you know, broken toilets, broken bathtubs.

[00:04:50] It's amazing what people can break when they just don't care about it. And so it wasn't they were just using the place for the season that they needed. It's that they were abusing it and then not taking any responsibility. And so, you know, working with businesses and honestly, working with teams when I was running teams in that way, I realized some people have an owner's mindset, some people have a renter's mindset, and some people are vandals in these work environments. And so over the years, I've worked with that philosophy and really kind of aligned it with Gallup's engaged, disengaged,

[00:05:20] actively disengaged and produced this book and have spent a lot of time talking to a lot of people and incorporating these philosophies into business. That's fantastic. And I know you speak a lot on culture within organizations. I know you're a very successful, very popular speaker on that topic. So I think this is a really good lens that we can look through. It's just a different story. I've never heard it portrayed this way. And because everybody lives either as an owner or renter and hopefully not as a vandal, everybody lives somewhere like that. We identify with that.

[00:05:49] And so when I hear act like an owner, a lot of the people I deal with, they're partners in professional services firms. They're equity partners in global law firms. They are technically owners, but I know that they have up and coming associates and other staff. Do you think those people that are not technically an owner in an organization, can they still have this mindset of acting like an owner? Oh, it's preferred because I work also like you're saying with partnerships. Of course, I work with accounting firms that have partners as well that are equity owners.

[00:06:17] I work with ESOP organizations where literally every single person is an owner. And yet, Scott, you've probably seen this at the professional services you work. Just because you actually have a financial connection to it doesn't even mean you treat it like it's yours. Some people, I mean, some people that have financial connection also can act like vandals. You know, that's the irony of it because they think it's theirs, their treatment of it and the people there.

[00:06:47] And so this book, absolutely, you know, my hope, Scott, is it's a book that organizations will say, we want to put this in our onboarding process. Because it's not a because the mindset of acting like an owner, it brings a fulfillment and a satisfaction that hopefully there'll be a financial return. But what you and I both know is that there's a lot more to just money. We got to have money. It's got to be a baseline of we're taking care of.

[00:07:12] But the thing that really motivates us in our work and anybody in the organizations is their own sense of what do they get back from it? What is the return on investment they get? And so I have this thing called E-Frog, which is an emotional, financial, relational opportunity or growth. And you know how it is. We both have young adult kids, right? We've got 20-somethings in the workforce. And you know, they, I mean, they want money. I mean, don't make no better. Gen Z wants their money. But they also want opportunities.

[00:07:41] Like I will make sacrifices. I will give myself if you show me there's opportunities for a pathway that leads to career progress that I can advance. Hey, I want to be in relationships, especially in our virtual and hybrid world. It's like, you know what I really value? Somebody who could mentor and that I could be around. And so there's these other returns that in organizations, there's a huge value for acting like an owner because of the return you get. Right, right. Let me ask you this. So the people listening to this show and everything you've said, I think is brilliant.

[00:08:11] I want to go deeper in that. Let's say somebody is listening to this. They're not a CEO of a large organization. They've got a team of five. Do you think they can influence their team to start acting like an owner? I mean, absolutely. I mean, whether it's a huge corporation, a small company, it's always the leader, Scott, as you know.

[00:08:32] And, you know, when you shift over to Gallup, when they talk about how if a manager kind of is bought in, how much more significantly the team is because it's a collective we. Right. Really, that's a lot. And, you know, in our workplace today, people are talking about belonging and it's kind of shifted to that idea of do I have a voice? Do my thoughts matter? Am I cared for? Like, do I have a place here? And so that's always going to be the leader's responsibility.

[00:08:58] What's great with a person who leads a team of five, you know, they can know what is this person's motivation? What really gives them a return on their investment? What is the skill? Because when I talk about owners, renters and vandals, the way I kind of shorthand it is, is that owners bring their heart, head, and hands. There are people who care. They bring a passion. They want to use their creativity and their imagination. They want to be analytical. They want to think about things. And then they also have the skills, whereas renters, they just bring hands. Right?

[00:09:27] They show up. They do their job. And they do their job well. You know, the challenge in the workforce is there's so much emphasis like the disengage, we need to reengage. Well, statistically, for 25 years, Scott, I've done the Gallup over 25 years. It has not moved one or two percentage point either way. It's always at 50, 51, 52, 51, never below 50. So it's literally every other work, every other person in the workforce is disengaged. Wow.

[00:09:57] And so, and so people do all these engagement surveys. And Scott, here's the secret. Most people are focusing on this. How do we get the disengaged to be more engaged? When what really the trick is, how do we take the vandals, the actively disengaged, and how do we evict them, which enables these disengaged to go, oh, okay. So you're not going to tolerate that behavior. Okay. So you're not going to put, I guess it's worth me investing back in. Yeah. And so that's really one of the strategy hooks.

[00:10:23] It's like, I recognize for people to be, even in these small teams, you know, even on a small team, you have one vandal, how impacting that is for everybody else. They just give up. They get frustrated. They don't turn into vandals necessarily, but they go, it's just not worth me acting like an owner because what's tolerated and what they put up with here. So I'll just show up, do my job, go home and not care anymore about it. I'm looking at my phone of the notes that I snapped from your book, which is fantastic.

[00:10:51] And I highly recommend the different five unlocks. Can we go over those? Can we talk about those? I like the fact that you give the context and then you give a framework on how anybody can do this. So let's start with the first one. What's the first unlock? The first one, Scott, is risk bold commitments. This is an interesting one because everybody in every organization wants people to be committed. Like that's a no brainer, easy start. But here's what I found.

[00:11:19] And you may find this also in your in the organizations you work with. They haven't been really great at defining what are the metrics of commitment. What does it look like for someone to be committed at this place? You know, I always say people like to use time and time is the worst measurement of commitment because somebody could be there a really long time. Like I've been here 25 years. I'm obviously committed. I'm like, maybe. Or you just have a high tolerance for pain. You know, maybe you've just figured out how to endure and outlast and get it.

[00:11:49] So time in the long run. And you know it. People also are like in the short run. I'm the first one in. I'm the last one. I turn the lights on. I turn the lights off. I'm like, you know, you might be committed or you might just be slow at your job. Yeah. Just because you work 12, 14 hour days. That doesn't mean you're committed. I know within the legal world and other professional services, the return to office. We want people in the office five days a week physically here. What do you think about that? How does that how does that fall within your context here? Well, I think that's a I think that's a culture, right?

[00:12:16] I think the culture what they're looking to create in their culture, because sometimes what people will talk to me about Scott is, you know, it's hard. It's hard for our culture to exist in a remote world or with hybrid. And what I found is what really happens is the remote experience reveals what the culture actually is, because when we went through COVID, I worked with clients that had a value their people first.

[00:12:41] And immediately when COVID happened, they replicated every single person's cube in their home. And so what happened was COVID actually magnified how incredible their culture was. It didn't diminish it. It just revealed what it actually was. And so I think a lot of for culture's sake, remote doesn't take away so much as it reveals. Now, listen, in person interaction, you know, there is something special about humans connected. There's an energy, there's exchange, there's spontaneity.

[00:13:09] So serendipity like that stuff is real in shaping it. But it's but you can't excuse not having in person for not having a healthy culture in a place that people want to contribute. And so as far as commitment, well, that's it. So it's like if you're going to define this is what it looks like to be committed here, you show up at nine o'clock, you leave at six o'clock and you're in the seat. Well, then that's a definition of commitment. And if you want people that are regulated that way, like that's most important, then fine measure it that way.

[00:13:37] But it's not a it's not an indicator. Well, let me just say this. Once you define your commitment and then people go, yeah, I will align with that. I will show up with that. You know, then it goes. Then it says, yeah, these people are committed because we've said in this place, this is what commitment looks like. Let me ask you. What are examples of organizations you've seen? You don't you don't have to mention their names, of course. But what are examples of how they have risked bold commitments and what has been the result of that?

[00:14:04] Well, there's a there's a couple because it's a for me, it goes down to the individual level. And so I worked with an organization that had incorporated a mentoring process that offered mentoring. And so that sounds like, well, that's a great thing. But what the risk is, is then I'm I'm going to make myself accountable to another person. Right. And so they created this structure. And this is what's this for me.

[00:14:31] This is one of the measurements, you know, of commitment that really is revealing is are you willing to be held accountable? Because most people are like resistant because accountability to baseline in an individual way says there are areas in my life I haven't yet achieved that I want to achieve and I need help getting there. And listen, the human ego does not like saying I need help, especially in the professional world. I'm sure in the professional services you work in that people are not like, hey, I need help.

[00:15:00] They're like, I'm a professional. I know everything. That's right. And yet what I have found, Scott, is that, you know, without accountability, you and I can't sustain excellence. This is this is really a point, Greg. I mean, this is this is really interesting because I've seen those in my world and dealing with global law firms, the correct persona of an effective partner client facing persona is I have all the answers. I know everything. The problem is that persona permeates other areas of their professional life, which keeps them growing and reaching their full potential.

[00:15:30] I think you hit something there. Right. Right there, Greg. Here's what I like to say. If you're not willing to be accountable, what it means is you're committed to mediocrity in your life because you and I cannot sustain excellence in any area of our life without people in it that are just nudging us. Right. I think of accountability as progress partners. Like there's an area in my life I need progress. And so I invite people in and go, I need nudge there. I need reminded. I need called out when I'm not living up to it. Right. Accountability has such you know, you can't enforce it.

[00:15:58] So that's why when we go back to what is risking both, it's a bold commitment for me to say I want to keep growing and I'm publicly letting other people know I'm connecting with people in areas of my life that I want to get better. And listen, at any season of life, in any profession, that's still a real need in our life. And where I don't invite people, it says I'm just willing to be mediocre in this area.

[00:16:22] Yeah. And so that's why it's risky. That's why it's bold. That's why it's a commitment, because it's also Scott, if you've ever done this, holding someone accountable, like the flip side of accountability is like it's hard to hold your peer, your because it's just awkward. When you don't live up to it, you're like, hey, man, we made an agreement if you didn't do this. And there's a consequence or accountability that you have these agreed to consequence. It's hard to exact that on a colleague, but that's why it's so significant.

[00:16:51] And that's why it's a bold commitment. And so that's what when I when I say that, when I think of it, I think of it as an individual level. It's like, what are they willing to do? And then as an organization, you can't go, hey, we're going to create accountability program. Everybody has to be a part of it. But you create this mentorship program. That's what we'll go back to this company that created this mentorship that said you can opt in to having a relationship with people that will hold you to standards in your life that you want to achieve and sustain. So that's one. That's great.

[00:17:20] And so let's look at and I don't think we'll get through all five here. But Greg, let's talk about the second unlock here. Activate lasting value. Tell us, what does that mean and why is that important in helping people to think more like owners? Well, there's and this is what's so significant, like what you spoke about, like if they're not a partner, most people aren't in a role that says I have financial equity or I have a leadership position where I kind of own a whole division.

[00:17:48] Right. The majority of humans are working in roles that is like I don't have nobody's you know, I don't have budget making authority. I don't have directional leadership authority. I'm being impacted by what other decisions are being made. And so how do I create impact lasting value and activate lasting value if I don't have a place of designated authority?

[00:18:13] And so I like I use free words as the example because, you know, I have this saying in this people like people who like them. And so when I use free words to say, Scott, you know, one of the things I really appreciate about you is that you've got a demanding job. You've got a variety of things happen. But man, you maintain a level head. You treat people with respect. You show up and you're really positive even in difficult situations. So when I say words like that, all of a sudden you go, thanks for noticing. Yeah. And is that what you mean by free words? Is that what you mean?

[00:18:43] Is that the definition of that? Free words is I and wherever I'm at at the organization, I can use my words when I notice something about somebody to speak in specificity. I can specifically say something true about someone and that creates value in them and it causes me to be more value. Scott, you know me and my personality. I'm like an encourager. So I'm like, you're awesome. You're great. You're the best, man. I love how you. And so I can do these really surface level things that don't create any value and can actually turn negative.

[00:19:10] But when you use specific words and say, hey, I noticed this and I saw this. I don't have to be a person's boss. I don't have to be on the same team with them. I can just recognize it. And what that does for every individual is it causes them to become just a little bit more valuable. And the words they use create value in others. Wow, that's powerful. I mean, and that's at the Naval Academy, we learned praise in public, rebuke in private or reprimand in private.

[00:19:36] And have you seen organizations really shift when people started doing more of this? I mean, dude, yes. In so much that when people feel their colleagues actually notice them, it increases a sense of trust and accelerates it. That's one of the things, you know, I always say people like people who like them. It has this reciprocating effect. If I literally just said to you, Scott, man, I really like you.

[00:20:04] There is something that happens inside of you that you go, huh, I don't know if I like you, Greg, but I kind of feel like I should say I like you. Like there's something that happens soul to soul. I don't know what it is. It has to be sincere. It can't be manipulative. Is there any downside to doing that? No. Yeah, I don't think so either. And I wonder why people don't do it more, you know. Well, and here's what I found about it, Scott, what I think is really interesting.

[00:20:27] Because there are people who are not that likable personality-wise, and you work in spaces where people have very strong personalities. And so I will say this. I'll say, listen, you don't need to be likable. You just have to like the people you engage with. You don't have to be like, oh, I got to change who I am. Nope, nope, nope. You just have to actually like the people, and there will be a reciprocity that takes place. And I don't want people to like people for the sake of jolly good times. Sometimes it's that it accelerates trust. So going back to the impact that it has on organization.

[00:20:56] And I find, Scott, leaders really miss because they'll be like, you don't know the people I lead. And you don't know what they don't even want to work. And I work with these people who are none of that. As a leader, you don't have the right to not like the people you lead. And if you don't, then you shouldn't be in leadership. Because liking them gives them the opportunity to grow trust with you so you can have the necessary conversations and they can grow and contribute in meaningful ways.

[00:21:24] But you know how it is as a leader, it's hard to look at yourself and go, hey, that person's making really poor choices. I wonder if it's because we don't have a strong enough relationship that they want to come talk to me because I haven't made it safe. I'm not approachable. I haven't given them the right to disagree with me. So they're making all these choices that then I'm like, you wouldn't believe what they're doing. It's a reflection of the leader. It's not a reflection of them. And so that's a real hard pill to swallow.

[00:21:50] But once you kind of, and that's why it activates lasting value because it creates this dynamic that we're fostering environment where trust can really grow. And when thick trust exists, decisions are made more quickly. You solve the right problems and you move much faster in what you're trying to accomplish. Well, Greg, these are insightful observations that will make an impact for people that implement those. And we've only covered two of the five, unlike that you mentioned.

[00:22:18] And so let me ask you this, as we're kind of bringing things to a close here, and we're going to put all of your information and the link on the show notes where people can order your book. But if you could give our listeners three action steps, what are three action steps they can take, even if they don't read your book, they can take to really transform their organization to where people can start acting like owners? The last unlock, Scott, is called Think Whole House. And so this is really one of the most significant ideas.

[00:22:46] I had five Alpha Gamma Delta girls renting a four-bedroom house. Three of them had their own room. Two of them shared the room downstairs, the primary room. Two girls downstairs put an iron on the carpet. Ladies upstairs didn't care at all about what happened downstairs because it wasn't their room. And renters think their room's the most important room in the house. And so the thing that I always say as an owner of houses, I like all the rooms. And sometimes people, Scott, think, people knew what I did around here.

[00:23:15] If they don't, this place would fall apart if it wasn't for me. So the first and foremost, this is the last point that I have is Think Whole House. You create the most value when you go, okay, I care for the whole, and this is the area that I'm serving in, and this is how I'm contributing to it. So first step is think bigger than your department, think bigger than your location, think bigger than your area of service, and consider the whole. It sets you up to be the most impacting in the room you serve. That's number one.

[00:23:45] I'm sorry I took too long to answer the question. It's a good point. What's number two? Number two, start noticing what people do positively. People have a confirmation bias negative towards most people. So that idea of saying, this week I'm going to spend observing the people I work with, and I'm going to find one person doing one thing that I can say out loud, you did a really great job at this. I really appreciate the attitude. I really appreciate how you responded.

[00:24:15] I really appreciate how you served. Do that. To me, people talk about strategy in different ways. What's strategic value creation is by creating it in others. So look for that. So number two, look for ways you can just find something positive to say to one person once a week. It's not a heavy lift. And then the third, I'll go through these ideas. The third thing that somebody could do, don't read the book, you just show up to work, is ask yourself, am I owning this or am I blaming?

[00:24:45] I have found that even when relationships are challenged, Scott, even if you and I had a difficult relationship and I'm like, oh, it's because of Scott. Well, you know how Scott is and he does this and he does that. We're very blamed. It's like, okay, what if I was 100% responsible for this relationship? What if I was 100% responsible for the culture of my team? What if I was 100% responsible for how these team meetings go? Even if I'm not the leader, I'm not saying you have to be the same, but if I thought like that, how would I act differently towards people?

[00:25:14] How would I contribute differently in these settings? And when I walked away from them, what would I feel responsible for? So just that idea of am I acting like an owner in this situation, in this relationship, in this gathering? It changes the dynamic of how you engage with other people. That's great, Greg. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your fantastic wisdom with us. Like I said, I've learned a lot from you before. I've really learned a lot from you today. And I know all of our listeners will as well.

[00:25:42] And I know it's going to make a significant impact in their organizations. And tell us about your offerings. What do you do? What do you have? How can you help our listeners out? What would you like for them to know about your offerings? Well, greghawks.com. That's kind of the centerpiece of where all my information is. So just G-R-E-G-H-A-W-K-S. I'm sure you'll have it in the show notes, you know, .com. I'm on LinkedIn. As you said, that's where I like to put out all the things that I do. Also, I'm doing with the book kind of a team coaching.

[00:26:13] But I do partner with organizations and say, give me a team of up to 10 where I understand the dynamics, where I can be a part of it. And so I can do a six-month engagement where I'm just kind of embedded as part of the team and help really shift the culture and the mindsets. And so I'm really excited about doing that in conjunction with the book so they can find out more information at greghawks.com. So that's really kind of what I'm doing. Of course, I speak at events and their annual kickoffs.

[00:26:39] And at ESOPs, I do a lot of the, you know, they have like shareholders, stakeholder meetings annually, talk about how they're progressing. And so accounting firms and then law firms, you know, having the opportunity to help shape this culture. Because if you want people to think and act this way, you've got to create an environment for them to be able to do that. Scott, one final note, because the, I know I'm trying to get more, people show up every day. People show up the first day on the job as an owner.

[00:27:07] And then it's the organization's culture that crushes the heart and mind out of them and turns them into renters. And then the organization is like, why don't you buy in like you once did? And it's because they started working there. And so I try to partner with organizations to shape environments where people can show up and contribute to best days. That's great, Greg. I really appreciate just this framework that you've given us. And thank you so much for sharing your wisdom again. And I'd love to have you back on the show here again in a few months, Greg. Love to. Thank you, my friend.

[00:27:38] Thank you for listening to The Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com. To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com. Thank you.