TRP 284: [Legal] How to Get Speaking, Panel, & Writing Opportunities with Elise Holtzman

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high-stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thank you for joining me on the show, and thank you for making this show a huge success. Every Thursday, I bring experts and authors and coaches and consultants that help people in all professional services.

[00:00:38] Now, several months ago, I started a Sometimes Tuesdays series just focused on the legal industry. So if you're a lawyer working in a law firm, definitely check out all of our Tuesday series. In fact, this week we have Elise Holtzman coming on again. Part one of her interview last week was on how to get visibility, and part two, we're talking about how to get speaking, panel, and writing opportunities. Something very specific that I think will help you.

[00:01:06] Now, Elise is a coach and consultant to law firms and attorneys that helps them in areas such as business development, career growth, and also leadership. Check out all of her information on the show notes. In fact, Elise has a Women's Business Development Accelerator program starting in March, and registration is open for that for those women in law that wish to grow their practices. Go to the show notes, and you'll be able to connect with Elise directly and also look for the information called IGNITE.

[00:01:35] On the show notes, where you can sign up directly. As always, this show is sponsored by SharePoint Legal Insights, formerly known as Leopard Solutions, turning legal intelligence into opportunity. And also, the Rainmaking Magazine for the intellectually driven and results-focused professional that wants to grow their book of business. Visit therainmakingmagazine.com to chart your course to greater rainmaking success.

[00:02:02] Thanks for listening, and I know you're going to get some great ideas from my conversation with Elise today. Hey, this is Scott Love with the Rainmaking Podcast. Our guest again this week is Elise Holtzman. Last week, we talked about becoming a visible expert, and this week, we're talking about how to get speaking, panel, and writing opportunities. Elise, thanks for joining me back on the show again. Good to see you again, Scott. Thanks for having me. Absolutely right. And I liked what you teed up for our listeners this week.

[00:02:32] Let's get right into it. Why do you think partners and associates in firms should get speaking, writing, and panel opportunities? What's the big deal with all that, Elise? Right. So as we discussed last week, I think what often happens for lawyers is that they think that if they do really good work, the clients will come. And, you know, I wish that were true, Scott. It would make people's lives a lot easier, but unfortunately, it doesn't really work that way.

[00:02:57] If you are toiling away in obscurity in your office and nobody knows about you, right, except the few people with whom you're working, you're not going to attract clients. And so there are a number of different things that you can do in order to be seen, to be visible. And it doesn't have to be you, you know, flapping your feathers and telling everybody how great you are. It's really all about being out in the marketplace, in the legal community, in the business communities of which you're a part, and demonstrating value, right?

[00:03:26] Delivering value, talking to people about the things they're most interested in, helping them solve problems, helping them achieve their goals, answering the questions that keep them up at night. That's great. That's perfect. And let's kind of tee this up this way. Let's talk about how do we get these bookings to speak, write, and get on panels. And then let's talk about when you're doing the panel, how should you talk about it? How does that sound for you? Okay, perfect. So many people think that it's really complicated and difficult to get these speaking and writing gigs.

[00:03:56] And I want people to understand that when you focus in on it, it's really not as challenging as you may be making it out to be. I've had many people say to me, Elise, no, I've never spoken. Nobody's ever asked me to speak. Nobody's ever asked me to write an article. And so what I say to that is no problem. It's not unusual that that would happen. Again, you're doing really good work, but you're sitting in your office. Nobody knows about you. Nobody knows you want to write. Nobody knows you want to speak.

[00:04:22] And so you have to be proactive about getting out there and getting the opportunities. Once you do it for a while, I've been doing it for a long time. Scott, I know you've done it for a long time. Then, yes, people will start coming out of the woodwork to ask you to do it because they've seen you speak or they asked somebody for recommendations. Those people saw that you wrote an article and they read your stuff. And so ultimately it starts to turn into opportunities that come to you without you having to run out and get them.

[00:04:49] But in the beginning, it's about being proactive. And so what does that mean? What does that look like? So as we discussed last week, I think we discussed this last week, it's really important to make sure that before you go out into the world and do this stuff, that you have a sense of what it is you're looking for. In theory, you could go out there and write for anyone, speak for anyone. And that's, first of all, not going to get you where you want to go.

[00:05:15] You want to be very clear about speaking to your audience. And your audience is typically going to be comprised of either clients, prospective clients, right? The kinds of people that you serve on a regular basis and or referral sources, the people that need to know that you're so good at what you do and need to understand what it is that you do. So it's easy for them to make a referral to somebody else who is looking for somebody just like you.

[00:05:41] Once you've determined what it is, your who, right? The kinds of things that you help people with, your what and your where, where those people get their information, then it's time to get proactive. Right. I'll use myself as an example. My clients are all lawyers and law firms. So when I first started coaching, I wasn't sure that I was going to be working with lawyers and I joined a chamber of commerce.

[00:06:07] People were lovely. I got very involved. I started to know everybody. And then I realized I wanted to work exclusively with lawyers. The chamber of commerce really wasn't the right place for me, even though it was a fantastic place because you had every sort of person there. I needed to go fish in the right fish pond. And for me, that was going to be largely at the beginning, especially largely bar associations and other legal organizations. And so I picked up the phone and I called the person at the bar association in my state who's responsible for programming.

[00:06:35] And I said, hey, I'm curious if you're looking for speakers. These are the kinds of things that I talk to people about. And listen, this was at the very beginning. I wasn't even totally doing it. You know, I knew the value that I delivered to my clients. And so I started talking about the things that I could be talking about. And they said, oh, you know what? We'd really like to hear about X. It was often rainmaking. Right. So you and I are in the right spot for that. It was often rainmaking, but there were other things as well. And so what I think people need to understand is that particularly volunteer organizations,

[00:07:05] which is what we're talking about, because we're really talking here about not necessarily getting paid for speaking or writing, but just doing it as part of your marketing plan is that these volunteer organizations and publications are always looking for content. They need content on a regular basis. So imagine you're the editor of some kind of online magazine or something like that. You have to have content daily, weekly, monthly, whatever it may be.

[00:07:32] Not always so easy to find it and not so easy to find fresh voices. So you're kind of doing them a favor if you reach out to them and say, hey, I speak on this topic and I'm interested in possibly doing it for your organization. You know, I think what you mentioned should really nullify any hesitation people have about, oh, I don't think they'd be interested in hearing from me. Because what you have is a solution to the problem of them having to get content. If it's a trade association, they have constituents.

[00:07:59] And part of the value of belonging to a trade association is knowing that they're giving you information that can help you with whatever you do. And so let me ask you this in terms of the life cycle of an attorney developing his or her practice. When should people be looking at these things? Like should they like to your associate not even worry about that until you're a partner? What do you think? OK, so the last thing you said, not worry about it until you're a partner. That actually makes my skin crawl. So I know you know the answer, Scott.

[00:08:26] But that makes me crazy because I think what has happened in the legal profession is that we tell associates, put your nose to the grindstone, do the work, learn how to be a good lawyer. And listen, of course, that's what you have to do. So don't come at me. You absolutely have to do that. You have to be good at your craft. You have to learn what it is you're doing, all the ethics, all of the skills. Not a question. However, what has happened traditionally is that someone says, OK, I've been with this firm for eight or 10 years. I love it here. I'm committed to the firm.

[00:08:56] I'd like to make partner. And somebody says, that's fantastic, Scott. We think you're a great lawyer. But in order to make you partner, we need to know where your book of business is. And you say, my what? What do you mean my book of business? You never mentioned a book of business to me before. You told me to become a good lawyer and I have become a good lawyer. Or you do make partner because they see the potential. And then within the first couple of years, you're feeling tremendous pressure to do something that you simply haven't been practicing. You don't know how to do.

[00:09:24] So what I encourage all associates to do is from the very beginning, understand very clearly that a law firm is a for-profit business. OK? They make money, yes, based on your billable hours. But they also make money when you bring business into the firm for other people, for yourself and eventually for other people to do. And so even though no one is expecting a junior associate to run out there and drum up a half a million dollar client overnight,

[00:09:49] I recommend that everybody start developing the skills, the behaviors, which is just habits, and the mindsets of Rainmakers. And these sorts of opportunities, the speaking and writing opportunities, give you a lot of chance to practice those skills as you're moving ahead. So if you are a junior to mid-level associate, it is unlikely that somebody is going to put you on a panel to talk about your area of expertise right away.

[00:10:16] Having said that, you can help a partner write an article, right? You can sort of second chair an article, get on the byline for an article. Offer that up. You know, sometimes things are a little slow at work. I think most people are very busy, but occasionally you have some time. And even if not, make it a priority to go to a partner and say, you know, this issue has come up. I think we could write an article on this. Would you be willing to do this for me? And over time, you're going to build a body of work, right?

[00:10:43] You're going to get a few things under your belt and people are going to see that this is something you're doing. And if you want to go to a publication at some point and do it on your own, you can say, I co-authored these four articles over the last couple of years. You've got a credential. You've got credibility. Yeah. And the same thing goes for the speaking engagements. So if you are in the Bar Association, for example, get involved in the Young Lawyers Division. Great. It's something that has nothing to do with your topic. It may just be what it's like to be a junior associate at a big law firm.

[00:11:12] It may be just, you know, people telling their stories or sharing ideas with one another. Maybe you're a fifth-year associate and they want you to come in and talk to first-year associates about how to be a really good junior associate. The point is you're getting the opportunity to speak. You know what, you start to know what it feels like to be on a panel, for example, or to moderate a panel. And so what you're doing is you're practicing all of these skills. And as you become more senior, then you are going to have more experience under your belt in your particular practice area.

[00:11:40] And that's going to give you the confidence and the gravitas to be able to take on those opportunities. That's great. That's really good. That's really good advice. Let's talk about the difference between a speaking engagement and a panel. What's the difference between those ways? Okay, so there are many different ways that you can speak. So let's just start with one that we see all the time, which is panels, right? So panel discussions are typically a few people, you know, on the dais. They often have a moderator.

[00:12:08] So the moderator's job is to, you know, keep everybody on topic, make sure that everybody's being heard from, ask really good questions, ask follow-up questions. The moderator stands in the role of the audience in many ways and says, hmm, what does this audience want to hear? And how can I make sure that this conversation is delivering really good value to the people who are sitting and watching this thing? So analysts are all offering their own perspectives.

[00:12:34] And so it's really nice to have three people on the panel who come from different backgrounds. Maybe you'll have a big firm person, a small firm person, somebody from the East Coast, somebody from the West Coast, whatever it may be. But you get some diversity of thought on the panel, diversity of experience. And so you're really giving people a menu of options. They hear certain things and they go, oh, that's interesting. Maybe I could do that. Or they learn something new. What's great about panels is for people who don't want to get up there and have the spotlight on them the entire time.

[00:13:04] Think about it. If you're on a 45-minute panel, there are three people on the panel and the moderator talking, and perhaps there's time for Q&A. There's not a ton of opportunity to speak, but there is enough opportunity to say something that is going to demonstrate your value and have you stand out. But it's not overwhelming enough. Exactly. Oh, my God. People are looking at me for an entire 45 minutes and I have to have content for them that's just coming out of my mouth the entire time. That's right.

[00:13:30] And I've also found that sitting on a panel, there's the interplay between you and the other panelists and the moderator. And if the moderator does a good job, the audience. And I found that makes it much more engaging. It's less scripted. In a lot of ways, it's easier because you don't have to prep as much. You just have to talk about whatever it is you're talking about. What do you think about the leads? I couldn't agree more, Scott. I mean, that's why people, I think panels are a great place for people to start and maybe stay. I mean, you know, the most senior leaders are on panels on a regular basis.

[00:14:00] And so the interplay, not only is it easier for you and not only is it more fun, it's more engaging for the audience, but you also get to meet really cool people. I mean, that's the other thing, too, is right. We're not we're talking about this particular topic today. But, you know, I'm a huge believer in the power of networking and, you know, just developing relationships. And so, you know, developing relationships can lead to these visible expertise kind of activities. And the visible expertise activities allow you to meet really cool people. So it's a win-win.

[00:14:28] So let's say somebody is on a panel or they've given a speech, which is a whole other thing. And how does that impact their status within their niche? Right. So, Scott, let's say you and I both do the same thing. We both do commercial real estate transactions, let's say, as an attorney, which is what I used to do. And so the thing is that I'm a really good lawyer. I'm a really good real estate lawyer. You, however, are exceptional. Right. So, you know, I'm no Scott Love when it comes to commercial real estate transactions.

[00:14:58] I am on panels on a regular basis. I speak to people. I occasionally write an article. You know, somebody asked me to be on a podcast, that kind of thing. So my voice is out there. Who's the expert? Really, it's me. And the thing is, you're better than I am. But we people who are out there speaking and writing and delivering value have credibility in the marketplace. They are seen as thought leaders. And the term thought leader drives me insane because I think it scares people off.

[00:15:28] You know, people will say, well, what do you mean thought leader? Like, I didn't invent something new. I'm not a leader in terms of coming up with some new thing. All it means is that you are delivering value to people who need it. Right. You found your audience and you're talking to people about the things that matter most. So when I'm out there speaking and writing, I am considered a thought leader. I am considered somebody who has credibility in the space.

[00:15:51] If I look you up online and look me up online and I see that, you know, somebody sees I've done all this speaking and writing and I do this stuff. They're going to think, well, she must know what she's talking about if everybody's letting her do all of this stuff. So she must be the expert. Yeah. Right. That's where it positions you very differently in the marketplace than other people who are doing similar work. And I think also, even from a business development perspective, why should I work with you? Look at my thought leadership.

[00:16:18] And they know that especially if you work in a hyper-competitive niche, like I work in a hyper-competitive niche. There's so many people that became a legal recruiter in 2021 and 2022. It's just blown up. So that's when I had to get serious about my own thought leadership just to show not just that I know what I'm talking about, but to show distinction. You know, what do you think about that, Elise? Listen, Scott, I mean, this is the thing. Again, just going back, I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but it's really the same idea is that you cannot be invisible when you're in a crowded marketplace.

[00:16:47] I mean, my joke is, you know, it's not even a joke. When I first started doing what I was doing, there were very few lawyers in the country, former practicing lawyers in the country who were doing coaching and training and speaking education for lawyers in the area of business development. I could count on one hand the number of people that were doing it. Now, I mean, you know, I sound like a New Yorker, but now, you know, you can't like spit on the subway without hitting somebody, right, who is doing what I'm doing. And so, yeah, you know, that's the thing is that you have to have top of mind awareness.

[00:17:17] You have to have visibility. Otherwise, you're just the same as everybody else out there and you kind of become unfindable. That's right. So let's talk about writing opportunities. What does that mean exactly? So writing opportunities, the sky's the limit these days, right? Because the Internet has kind of leveled the playing field. If you have something you want to say, you can write a blog post on it. You can write an article. You could post it on your law firm's website. You could post it on LinkedIn. And there are still writing opportunities in publications.

[00:17:45] So things like, you know, that the lawyers know Law360, Law.com, which has a whole bunch of publications all over the country. So years ago, I published in the New York Law Journal. And then they published it not just in the actual paper. There was actual paper back then. But they also published it on Law.com, right? And I've published in Law360. And just to be clear, I mean, so there are lots of different ways that you could publish. You could publish in a trade magazine, right?

[00:18:11] So it could be, you know, maybe your clients are Tiddlywinks manufacturers. And there's a trade publication that's Tiddlywinks manufacturers monthly or something like that. You can publish there. And so here's the thing. You can get a little bit famous. The idea is to get a little bit famous. Get slightly famous in your little corner of the world. Right. You don't have to get famous like Oprah or whatever or Elon. You can do in your little corner of the world and just get known for your expertise.

[00:18:41] So let's say I'm a trademark attorney and my niche is children's toys, Tiddlywinks. We'll keep going with that. And let's say that I want to get published in children's toys monthly. How would I go about doing that? Would I email the editor? How would I get my name known within that publication? Okay. So the first one is make sure that that's what your clients are reading, right? Make sure that your clients are aware of it and they're reading it. And sometimes people say, well, I don't know what my clients are reading. Okay. Ask, right? You can say, hey, you know what? I'm really excited about this.

[00:19:10] And I'm doing a little speaking now and doing a little bit writing on this topic. I'm just curious, where do you get your information? So first, let's make sure that those, that's what your clients and or referral sources are reading. Then make sure you get a copy of it. Look at it. See what kinds of things are being published in there. Have an idea of what the, what the publication looks like. Cause nothing makes an editor crazier than when you reach out and you pitch something that has absolutely no relevance to what they actually publish and then figure out who the editor

[00:19:40] is. And by the way, you can find the right editor. Maybe they have an editor for legal articles. Fantastic. But you know what? Start anywhere because what they will do, I have learned that if you reach out to the editor and you say, oh, before you do that, some publications have something called writer's guidelines and they're published. So you might want to look up those online. And when, if you email them or reach out to them, you can say, you know, I looked for some writer's guidelines. I didn't find any. Do you have any available?

[00:20:07] I would love to publish an article, you know, about something that's of interest to your audience. Don't write the article first necessarily. Find out what it is that they're looking for and see how you can fit into that. So open up a dialogue with them. By the way, if you get the wrong editor, they will get you to the right editor because I've had that happen where I reached out to somebody and she said, oh, well, you know what? I'm the editor for this sort of article, but so-and-so is the editor for the kind of article you're going to be writing. Let me make the introduction.

[00:20:36] Open up a dialogue. Some publications do not want you to write the article first. They want to talk to you about what the article is going to have in it. They want to tell you how many words it's going to be. They want to tell you whether they're going to want you to quote sources or not, or you're just going to write your own opinion or whatever it may be. Some of them are going to want to see the article first. And so before you write something, if you have it already written, fantastic. But before you write something, talk to them so that you're not wasting effort. Understand that there's an editorial process.

[00:21:06] So you're going to have to take a little ego out of it because sometimes they come back and the one line that you thought was the best line in the article, they want to cut out. And then also, and you know, for the lawyers who are listening, you know this already, but be very careful that you know who owns the intellectual property to your article and what you're allowed to do with it. That's great. And what do you mean by that exactly? Like where we can reprint it, things like that? Exactly. So as an example, right, I've signed different ones of these depending on who, with, you know, who I was publishing with.

[00:21:35] And some of them say, we have to be able to print it first. And then anytime you reprint it going forward, there has to be a line on there that says this article was first printed in the New York Law Journal on such and such a date. Usually they allow you to PDF the article and put your own, you know, you can, first of all, the other thing to recognize is that a lot of these publications are behind a firewall. That's right. And so you, you won't be able to link to it online and have people go to it because they have to have a paid subscription.

[00:22:04] So instead, what you can do is you take your article, get somebody, a graphic designer can do it for you for very inexpensive, or you have somebody in house to do it, have them, you know, make it look pretty, put it in a PDF, and then you can send it out to everybody that you know, or you can link to it on your website or something like that. And I've even asked whoever it was that quoted me in that where it wasn't an article I wrote, but it was something that they quoted me if they could send me a PDF and they did. And then, then others would say, you can't use this as a PDF. You have to follow their rules.

[00:22:34] Otherwise they won't call you again. Right. You just have to be careful and, you know, just know what you're signing. I mean, I find, you know, I'm a lawyer. I love me some lawyers, but lawyers are notoriously bad at reading the mine print because I, yeah, yeah, I'll just sign it. Just make sure you know what you're signing and hold on to that so you can go back. I mean, I've had to go back and look at something from a few years ago when I wanted to republish or reprint something. So just make sure you hold on to that. That's great. Well, Elise, this is fantastic advice. Thank you for being here again.

[00:23:00] If we could bring this to a close with three action steps, what are three action steps people can take to really get started implementing these ideas you shared with us today? What I would first say is make sure before you run out and do anything that you have sat down and thought about your who, what, and where, right? Do not waste your time and energy doing something that is not going to get to the right audience. Yeah. Number two, be proactive. Don't sit there and wait for somebody to ask you. Go out and find the opportunities.

[00:23:30] Let people know that you want to speak, that you want to write. Find out from them what it is that they need. And if it aligns with what you are doing, then produce it. The other thing we didn't have a time to talk about is some law firms, of course, will have people on staff in the marketing department that are PR experts or they have relationships with these publications already. So absolutely talk to your marketing people so that you are not duplicating efforts. Some people don't have any of that sort of thing, and that's where you can be really proactive.

[00:24:00] Number three, try different things. So try speaking. Try writing. Try being on a panel. Try doing a keynote if you have the stomach for it. You know, that's a whole other thing where you're really on stage by yourself. You know, Scott's done it. I've done it. Some people love it. Some people would rather poke needles in their eyeballs. But figure out what's right for you. And then most importantly, do it over and over and over again. And give yourself a reasonable goal. So for example, maybe you decide you're going to do something twice a year or you're going

[00:24:30] to do something once per quarter. And then stick to that. And over time, you are going to create a body of work that is going to position you as a leading authority in your area of practice. Elise, this is all fantastic advice. Thanks for being back on the show again. And then I know you told me before about a program that you're offering in first quarter of 2026. Do you want to tell our listeners about that today? I would love to. Thank you, Scott. So several years ago, I think we're going on, we're going to our fourth year now. I developed a program called Ignite.

[00:24:59] Ignite is a women's business development accelerator program. It combines content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are junior to mid-level partners with the occasional counsel thrown in who want to become rainmakers and leaders and are committed to helping support other women in the profession. And so it's actually a nine-month program with a couple of in-person events and then a lot that's virtual. So we've had people from all over the country and Canada participate in this.

[00:25:28] So if you are a junior to mid-level partner at a law firm and you want to grow a book of business and you want to become a leader and a visible expert and all the kinds of things that we talked about, I would love to discuss it with you. The program starts at the end of March of 2026 and we're about to open up registration, early bird registration. That's great. And we're going to put the links for that and also Elise's contact information on the show notes. So no matter where you listen to this podcast, go there and you'll be able to get all that information. Elise, thanks for joining me on the show again.

[00:25:58] And I look forward to having you back on again in the future. Thanks so much, Scott. This is so much fun. Thank you for listening to the Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com. To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.