TRP 277: [Legal] Overcoming Pitfalls to Becoming a Rainmaker with Rudhir Krishtel

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high stakes headhunter, author and professional speaker, Scott Love. You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast and my name is Scott Love. Thank you for joining me on the show. Our topic title today is Overcoming Pitfalls to Becoming a Rainmaker and our special guest is Rudhir Krishtel.

[00:00:36] Today's show is part of our Sometimes Tuesdays legal only shows targeting those exclusively who work in the legal profession. Let me tell you about Rudhir. I'm excited about what we're talking about today because this is going to help you. Prior to becoming an executive coach and consultant, Rudhir practiced law for 15 years as a federal judicial clerk, as a patent litigation partner at Fish & Richardson and then as senior patent counsel at Apple.

[00:01:03] He founded Krishtel in 2018, where he leads workshops and coaching on business development and leadership. Make sure you check out the show notes and connect with him directly. You'll also see information about his flagship BD Circle program, as well as a link to a video that describes that. As always, this show is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights, formerly known as Leopard Solutions, turning legal intelligence into opportunity. And also by The Rainmaking Magazine.

[00:01:33] For the intellectually driven and results focused professional who wants to grow their book of business, visit therainmakingmagazine.com to chart your course to greater rainmaking success. Thanks for listening. I hope you get some great ideas from our guest Rudhir today. And if you have a moment, give us a nice five-star review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening. Hey, this is Scott Love with The Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:01:59] Our special guest today is our third guest, third time he's been on the show, Rudhir Krishtel. And our topic is overcoming pitfalls to becoming a rainmaker. Rudhir, thanks for coming back on the show again. Scott, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate being here. Yeah, I'm excited. I learned things from you and it's always nice to run into at conferences. And let's kind of dig into this, the pitfalls. What do you think? Let's kind of start with the very first pitfall that you've seen from your expertise in coaching so many lawyers.

[00:02:28] What do you think the biggest pitfall is as we start our conversation? I think one of the biggest pitfalls with this audience is mindset. When I think about business development, I feel like it's 80% mindset, 20% skill set. And so building the tool are straightforward and the tools are available, but our mindset, we tend to think that so much is in our way.

[00:02:50] And so reframing our mindset on the various hurdles that come up on the process of building your practice are really where I focus a lot of energy early on because it can make a huge difference. I like that. So we're not changing things, we're reframing it. And what do you mean by that exactly? What do you mean reframing the mindset and what are some of those hurdles that you've seen? Yeah, a one reframe, a simple reframe is, you know, I feel like marketing is cheesy.

[00:03:18] You know, how many folks listening here feel a little bit like I'm burdening somebody, this is cheesy, and I'm just, you know, I'm burdening this in-house counsel or I'm burdening this CEO and they don't want to hear from me. And that's just a mindset. When you come across that 30 minutes in your calendar or 15 minute break, when you say to yourself, oh, it's time to do some BD.

[00:03:39] If you start feeling like you're doing something that's cheesy or not helpful to somebody, I can just feel like in that moment, you're just going to want to work on that brief or that deal. You know, go down the hall and grab some coffee and you're just going to miss the moment. And so I think that mindset is a really important thing to focus on. I like that, how you're reframing it. Who can I help? Because I think partners, a lot of times, I mean, they're attracted to people that are selfless. They like that. But somebody that isn't all about themselves.

[00:04:08] And so I think we don't want to think of this as this is just about me. It's like, no, it's about me solving a problem that somebody has with my unique specialized expertise. I can help them. Is that an accurate assessment of this, Radir? Look, I'm trying to make everybody listening here some money. And so I appreciate that it's about your book of business, but they don't really need to know that that's what it's all about. And you're actually reminding other folks, look, we're in a service profession. You got here because you were extremely helpful to people.

[00:04:35] That's what we want people to remember is that you're there to help them. Certainly through that service, you know, you get paid. And so we'll certainly be growing your book. But going up to somebody and saying, send me a case, send me a deal. That actually does feel cheesy. That doesn't feel great. And what we call that is bad marketing. The reason we worry about bad marketing is because people come to us with bad marketing. Your inbox is full of bad marketing.

[00:05:02] You know, your voicemails and your LinkedIn messages get full of people trying to market something to you. And so you don't have to feel like that's what you're doing. In fact, it's not. What I want you to realize and what I want listeners to realize is that marketing is actually just the beginning of helping somebody. I like that. Have you seen, is that easy for people to do from your experience in coaching partners? Easy to reframe and think differently. It's the most important work. You know, the hardest thing in our life is behavior change.

[00:05:29] Think about everybody listening and your Peloton is just sitting there and you're not on it, right? It's like, I can buy the equipment. I can get everything here. But it's behavior change that we want to invest in. And so behavior change starts with a mindset shift. And so I think it's the most important thing that we focus on. And I feel like when you were working with somebody and you're coaching somebody, once I get a mindset change, anything is possible. Yeah. And I remember our first episode, it was all about mindsets. I remember you talked about that.

[00:05:55] Is there anything, any mantra or any other ways you suggested can help people kind of think about this and keep that top of mind? Well, so with respect to marketing, we get that feeling when we might be bothering somebody or it's uncomfortable. We want to remember we're actually helping somebody. You know, I want everyone here to think about your favorite product or your favorite service. Like what's the thing that you love in the world? You know, I love, I'm drinking, you know, tea out of a Yeti. I love it. It keeps the heat.

[00:06:23] You know, I love my Nespresso coffee maker in the morning. And so there's something that you love that you use every day. You know, you think about that right now. Good marketing got that in your hands. And so what you're offering to your clients is something that is really valuable to them. They need help. They're struggling. Their company needs support. They're happy to pay for it. And what you're trying to remind them is, I'm here to help.

[00:06:49] And so oftentimes we feel cheesy or bad about marketing because we feel like we're burdening somebody. But just keep in mind, somebody out there is hurt. You have a Band-Aid. And all you're doing is offering and saying, hey, I got something to fix it. They can say yes or no. And so the beginning of any marketing effort, if you're writing somebody an email, if you're putting up a LinkedIn post, if you're about to book a trip to go meet somebody, or if you're jumping on a Zoom call with someone and it's in your mind, it's business development, which is about you.

[00:07:18] Don't forget, it's the beginning of helping them. And so although for you and your firm and your book of business, it's business development, there's no need on their side of that conversation for them to feel that way. Really what this is also actually about is you helping them. You're offering them that Yeti. You're offering them that Nespresso. You're offering them an amazing product or a service, just like the amazing products and services that you lean on. And so let's lose sight of some of the bad marketing that you see in the world.

[00:07:45] And the good marketing is what helps you being supported. And that's what you're doing for your clients. And so as you jump onto a call, as you sign up for a conference, as you think about where you're spending your time and building relationships, remember that first handshake, that first conversation is the beginning of helping somebody with something really meaningful. And these people have huge problems. Depending on your practice, you're talking about individuals and companies with significant challenges, major challenges in the way of their success. And you're a real asset to that.

[00:08:14] And so let's not feel like you're a burden. Let's remember you want to help. And this whole conversation you're about to have, the thing that you're about to step into is the beginning of helping. This is great. And I can see, I think one idea could be think about past clients that you've had, where you help them with that burden. You helped solve that problem. You were the one that closed the deal for the merger or you won the case. Is that something that you recommend? Like pre-play, like replay past successes?

[00:08:43] Is that something that helps people when they think about why they might hesitate about reaching out to clients and helping them? Yeah. I think listeners should just do it right now. You know, think about one, two, three, five people you've helped. What was the happy outcome? What was the difference in their life? What change did you make? And now you have to remember that that next person whose hand you shake, they or someone they know is going to get that good outcome, that good feeling multiple years from now.

[00:09:10] And so as soon as you meet somebody, it's not that they need to be a client right away, but you can almost see it a year from now, two years from now, three years from now, we're going to make a difference at this company. We're going to make a difference in their life. And then going in with that mindset, well, now you'd want to meet anybody. You'd want to shake anybody's hand because you're realizing that I'm about to help somebody and they don't need to know it or not. You know, I worked at Apple for five years. And if you think about an Apple store, Apple is marketing to a certain clientele,

[00:09:39] the people that walk into their store and purchase the product. And so they're trying to think about who's able to purchase this phone. It costs a certain amount of money. It's certainly a certain type of clientele. Now, a lot of folks might walk into that store and some folks walk in and out. But what you're marketing to is the purchaser. And so don't forget, somebody's walking into your life to get some help. If they don't come in, think about how many people walk into an Apple store and walk right out without buying anything. Get offended by that.

[00:10:07] You put up a store on the corner of a busy street in a metropolitan area and a lot of people walk in and out. But one out of every 20 people is a buyer. And so you might shake hands with 20 people. One of those people are going to be helped by you in the future. And so just don't forget, we don't worry about all the people that may not respond to a message or may not, you know, share work with us. But just keep in mind, you're helping people. You're out there to help people. Some people might not say yes to your Band-Aid offer, but enough will. And that's really the thing that you want to be focusing on.

[00:10:37] Do you think people have a fear of being rejected? Do you think that could be why they hesitate on this? I mean, Scott, just think about it. Everybody here listening is busy. They got a lot on their plate. Their weeks are busy. And they get to that 15 minutes a week. Do you think you're going to do something and spend time where you feel like, I don't know, this is going to lead to something. You know, this is going to lead to rejection. I'd rather just go work on that brief instead. If I have two hard things to choose from, I'm going to choose the hard thing I'm going to be successful at.

[00:11:04] With marketing, you want to have this mindset that, you know, I'm out here being helpful to people. A certain number of people will be okay with that. We'll be down with that. We'll acquiesce. And I'm just out here offering my help. And so I think it's not about rejection. It's really about keeping data. If you know your batting average, if you know your stats, you know, I worked with an attorney once. He said, as soon as I shake somebody's hand, that's in the position of, you know, acquiring my services or is in an in-house position, you know, where they would need my help.

[00:11:33] It takes me about two years, three months to get them to a yes. Oh, wow. We knew the data because they had been doing this for long enough. And so you want to have in your mind, I send out 10 emails that ends up being three set phone calls. And out of those three set phone calls, one or two clients shakes out of it. And I think that's what we want is we're professionals. We get up to the plate. We swing our bat. Even the best pros, you know, are batting 200 and they're still a pro. And so we're not worried about the misses. We're really focused in on the hits.

[00:12:01] You know, you miss a hundred percent of shots you don't take. And so what we want everyone here to have the mindset of is it's not about rejection. It's really that I'm typically securing, you know, one or two clients out of the 10, 20 phone calls I make in any given quarter. And so that's where we want your mindset to be is that this is just part of my regular activity. I'm out here offering help. And some people might be in the position that they need that help right now. The rest of the people are just coming in out of the store that day. That kind of takes the pressure off, I think.

[00:12:30] Now tell me about somebody that you've worked with, somebody you've coached. Don't mention their name, of course, but when they made this mindset shift, what changed in terms of their efforts and what was the payoff? How did that start helping them grow their practice? Well, you know, we think about simple things that people can do every week. And we're working with pros here. You know, everybody listening, I just want you to keep in mind, when you put your mind to something, by and large, it tends to happen.

[00:12:56] You know, five, 10 years ago, you set your mind to literally be where you are today. And so all we want to do is focus you in on what's next. And next is building relationships with the people that are in the position to hire you one year, two year, three years down the road. And if I can open up the energy and make that just a little bit more easier for folks, you know, we're working with the pros. And so all we're talking about is tweaking a shot, Scott. You know, we're talking about, you know, opening up the hole so they can run downfield.

[00:13:26] And so these small tweaks can actually have a huge impact on your practice down the road. Just a simple mindset shift. When I send this message, I'm just going to help somebody. When I post this message on LinkedIn, I'm just trying to help somebody. When I sign up for this conference, I'm trying to help somebody. And so I'm trying to get from doing the thing versus hesitating. And you can see how that's one of the hangups on the way to building a practice. You know, I've used a similar concept in my recruiting practice where I'm trying to help somebody. I've got opportunities. I'm not trying to convince them to leave their firm. I've got something that can help them.

[00:13:56] I think that makes a huge difference. And I think when you look at your core values as a professional services provider, and when you really believe that I'm here to help them, I've got unique specialized expertise that can solve these problems. I think people pick up on that. I think you telegraph those sincere intentions. And I think people really pick up on that. What do you think about that? In the private practice, I think sometimes we tend to think, you know, there's the private practice and there's pro bono. And I do pro bono to help people. And in this private practice, it's really all about money. And I just want to reframe that.

[00:14:26] I think we're in a service profession. We're here to help people. If you think about the in-house counsel leaders or the potential clients, you know, individual or company clients that you have, they're in a really challenging position and they need your insight. Their company is in a challenging position and they are, and you're here to help. Now you charge the rates that you charge because that's the market value for them or wherever it is that you set the market. But at the same time, what you want to remember and realize is really you're helping somebody that's in a pinch. I was in-house. I was at Apple.

[00:14:54] I leaned on my outside counsel every week. I probably a day didn't go by where I didn't have a call with outside counsel. And that is the person that was really helpful to me in managing a really complex, challenging situation that I had. And so I want everybody here to remember, you know, you're offering something that's a value, that's a service. You're helping somebody. And I think that mindset literally changes how we feel about what we're doing. I felt sometimes in a practice, you know, at times I felt dead inside because I really

[00:15:23] lost sight of the meaning here. But when I went in-house, I realized, gosh, these firms are really helpful to me. We're actually trying to do something really meaningful here, put a product out in the world that people use in a way that is simple and streamlined and, you know, reducing the liability involved with it. And so what we're talking about are people that are helping in that process. And so I think it's really valuable, you know, what everybody here is doing. And I think we want to lose sight. We don't want to lose sight of that. When you're reaching out to somebody, when you're checking in with them, when you're

[00:15:51] following up, you're doing something to help. That's great. I think that's going to let people thrive and kind of keep those hesitations at bay. So that's one pitfall we talked about. What do you think another big pitfall is that people should try to avoid in becoming a rainmaker every year? Well, so then it's like, who are we calling and who are we helping? And it can feel like everybody, you know, when you're sitting there and it's that time of the week where you got to do business development, you're thinking you have to please everybody.

[00:16:19] And so one concept that I really love, and I learned it from this marketing genius or guru, Seth Godin, who I really appreciate. And it's this idea of the smallest viable market, the smallest viable market. And so here's what I want folks to think about is not trying to please everybody because some of us worry about becoming niche or providing a service. We think we're going to miss out on opportunities. I don't want to reframe that. Think about the smallest viable market.

[00:16:49] Think about the eight to 10 people that could absolutely use your service and are willing to pay for it. Think about who they are. Think about what company they're at or what seat they sit in. Think about their title, their role, and think about the challenges that they face. And let's actually just focus in all our efforts on these eight individuals. I literally want you to bring them to mind. I want you to think about what's their day like?

[00:17:19] You know, what's their pain point? Who's breathing down their neck? You know, what are the expectations? What's going to make them succeed? And then I want you to think about how am I building relationships with these people? How am I helping these people? And I want you to narrow your mindset because oftentimes we try to help everybody. That LinkedIn post, that email, that article. Oh, I need to write it so that everybody benefits. And I think the challenge with that is you get into the business of trying to please everybody.

[00:17:48] And at that point, you please no one. You know, think about going to a restaurant and you go up to the counter and they say, you know, you say, what do you have? And they say, we make everything. Like who goes to a restaurant that makes everything? You want to go to that specialty sushi shop. You want to go to that pizza shop in Brooklyn that just does it that way. You know, Hudson River Water, whatever it is. It's like you want that specific thing.

[00:18:13] And so you're out there as a sophisticated buyer of food, of services, and you're sophisticated. And now you're telling people that you do everything. And so what I'd rather you do is think about the smallest viable market, the people that would really appreciate your service, that really need it, that are willing to pay for it, and that would value it. And now I want you to center all your marketing activity on that.

[00:18:39] And Scott, when people actually focus on that, what they realize is this is a relief. Like now I know what article I'm writing. Now I know what I'm going to say in my email. You talk to general counsel and I've interviewed, you know, a hundred as I do this work and I coach attorneys on business development. And every single one of them will tell you, if I get an email with a specific note about why this message is relevant to me and my business, I'm going to pay attention to it. You know, in-house attorneys get all kinds of lists, all kinds of things,

[00:19:08] updates and alerts that they get put on. But forwarding an alert with a specific note on why it's valuable for that person makes a really big difference. And so I want you to think about who am I really trying to please here? Who are the clients that I would love to have hired me in two to three years? You know, be a visionary, look forward into the future, think about who's hiring you. And now your efforts in the next quarter, in the next few weeks are based on building relationships with those people. It makes it much easier than to decide what that next LinkedIn post is about.

[00:19:36] It makes it easier to figure out what conference you're going to go to or who are you going to reach out to next? What are some examples? Have you seen people, they might do all different types of litigation. Now they get real specialized in a certain niche or a certain industry. What are some examples of that when they've really asked themselves that question, who are the eight to 10 people that can use the service? So I think here's one example. And I think litigation is a great example. And I think some of the folks that have the hardest time coming up with a niche are general, you know, general commercial litigators.

[00:20:05] And so even IP attorneys have a difficulty, even M&A attorneys have a difficulty, even, you know, labor and employment attorneys have difficulty. But general commercial litigation, I think is one of the areas where that can be the hardest because people certainly just feel like I'm good at everything. You know, I can litigate in any court. I can litigate any case. But what does general commercial litigation really mean? You know, I practiced law for 15 years. And if you said you did general commercial lit, now I got 20 questions.

[00:20:32] But if you think about who's my ideal buyer, who's the ideal person I'd love to have hired me? Well, I love telecom cases. Well, I definitely would love it to be, you know, a telecom company that's facing challenges with this new set of regulations that are coming down the way and how consumers are facing complexity with that regulation. Now that's a niche. So now I'm not saying that you limit your practice to only those clients. But if you niche in your marketing efforts, now you know what article you're writing.

[00:21:01] You write an article that someone's going to forward to somebody in telecom and saying, you at this company really needs to read this because this is dealing with the exact problem you have. You know what conference you need to go to. You know what people whose hands you need to shake in the next quarter in order to generate that practice. If you say you do everything and I can litigate everywhere, I think that's fantastic. But you'll realize that you lose more people than you've done with that mantra. And what I welcome is being a little bit more specific,

[00:21:29] not necessarily in what your website looks like and in your message, but that allows you, that specificity allows you to know where you're spending your time this quarter. Yeah, that makes sense. Is there kind of like a coaching model that you would recommend something like who are the eight to 10 people? Who is the ideal buyer? What problems or challenges are they having? Is there any sort of analysis way that you give people to really kind of figure this out? Yeah. Let's start with who's your ideal client. Who do you want calling you in three to five years?

[00:21:59] How many of them do you want calling you? Okay, now that we have a number and we have an idea, let's think about how many of those people do you know? And how many more do you need to know in the next many years to build relationship? Then we think about, well, how am I going to go out and build these relationships? And that'll give you clarity. It's either shaking hands with the people that you know or meeting people that you don't know. And so there's ways to connect with people that you already know. And then there's ways to draw in more relationships with people that you don't know.

[00:22:27] And that's how you start to map out the next few years. That's so simple. And I don't want to say easy, but that's just a simple explanation. And but what you just said, if we rebound the last 60 seconds, that's the playbook. How many do you know? How many do you need to know? And are you shaking hands with those you know? And how can you get those that you don't know connected with you? And that's pretty much the playbook, right, Rudier? It is. And Scott, you're right. It's simple and it is hard,

[00:22:56] but it's the hard we choose. Everything is hard. Working with a playbook is hard. Working without a playbook is hard. You know, think about being a preseason NFL team. You either go into week one with a playbook or you go into week one without a playbook. Both are difficult. We have teams that go into a preseason with a playbook and they still end out two and two or four and oh or one and three. And so everything we do, everyone listening here has decided they want to do difficult things. We want to do complex things.

[00:23:24] We want to offer complex solutions or simple solutions to complex problems. And so we're all up for hard. We're already a resilient group of people. We're in the school of hard knocks, but let's do the hard we choose. And so let's be clear about where you're going three to five years from now. Let's be clear about what steps you need to take, knowing that those steps are going to be hard. But now you have intention and you have clarity. And that's much better. It's much better to go into a season with a playbook than without one. Well, Rudi, I know people are going to benefit from this. And I appreciate you sharing this with us today.

[00:23:54] And I think it might be the missing link. A lot of people need to hear in terms of what's hesitating. What are the hesitations they have? Why are they not taking action? It could be reframing it. Then also the strategic part that you talked about, the smallest viable market. Those are brilliant ways to explain these very important concepts. So if you could summarize, let's say three action steps people can take to implement these ideas, what would those three action steps be, Rudi? I'd say as soon as you get to marketing and business development this week, remember that you're helping somebody.

[00:24:24] It's going to make it a lot easier to step into that activity. Second, think about your smallest viable market. Who's the specific group of people that you want to be helping, that you want hiring you. That's going to make your life a lot easier. And the next step is now thinking of action steps to be helpful to those people. And that's your marketing plan for the next three months is I'm going to write an article that's really helpful to these people. I'm going to go to a conference and speak about this topic that's really helpful to these people. And so first things first,

[00:24:54] remember you're helping. Second, figure out exactly who you're helping. And third, in the next three months, do something really helpful to them. This is great, Rudi. Pierre, thank you again for being on the show, your third time. Let's have you back on in a few months again for the fourth visit. And tell us about your services, your offerings. What do you have that you'd like people to know about? And we'll certainly put any links that you want people to see on the show notes. You need any help, book a strategy call with us. It's 30 minutes. It's going to be free.

[00:25:22] Just reach out and we will help you. The thing that we love to do is we have a group coaching program on business development called the BD Circle. And it's a four and a half month program that goes annually every year. And we'd love to have you in it. Reach out. We'll tell you more. But certainly for 30 minutes, we'll give you strategy. We'll give you something helpful. Certainly you've heard something helpful here today, or hopefully you have. And if you like what you hear, then book a call with us and we'll certainly find more ways to help and grow your practice.

[00:25:51] Well, Rudi, thank you for being on the show. And I've heard good things from people I've referred to you, so I can definitely vouch for what you said. And I hope that everybody here connects with Rudi, follow him on LinkedIn and social media. Thanks again for being on the show, Rudi. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom today. Scott, thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms,

[00:26:18] visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com. To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.