TRP 273: [Legal] Launching as a Lateral – Business development techniques to help laterals thrive in their new firms with David Freeman

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high-stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love

[00:00:21] Hey, this is Scott Love with The Rainmaking Podcast. I've got a special announcement before we get to our guest today. I've got some exciting news to share with you. After five years of producing this show with over 270 episodes and guests, we've decided to launch The Rainmaking Magazine, a brand new digital publication designed specifically for professionals who want to be a brand new product.

[00:00:44] We want to keep client development top of mind. If you're in a profession where relationships drive revenue, you know how easy it is to get buried in the work and forget the business of bringing in the business. That's where The Rainmaking Magazine comes in. Each month, you'll get practical ideas, strategies, and real-world insights that help you grow your book, all from credible experts and high-performing professionals who are actually doing it. It is for those intellectually-driven, results-focused professionals

[00:01:14] that insist on substance over noise. Check it out. It's $19 a month. That's our introductory rate. We're hosting it on the Dynamic Substack platform. So subscribe today. Visit therainmakingmagazine.com and make sure you never lose sight of what really builds your practice.

[00:01:31] And now let me tell you about our guest on our episode for today. The topic for today is launching as a lateral business development techniques to help laterals thrive in their new firms. And our guest is David Freeman. This is a topic you probably don't hear a lot about. If you're a lateral that has moved before and you want to continue to grow your practice, or if you have thought about moving, how do you know that you're going to the kind of firm that can help you integrate well? This is going to be a good episode for you to listen to.

[00:02:00] Our guest is David Freeman. He's a former practicing lawyer from New York, an award-winning consultant, and a two-time best-selling author. He's a member of the National Law Journal Hall of Fame for being voted the number one business development consultant and coach in the U.S. for several consecutive years. And for over 30 years, he's trained and coached well over 10,000 lawyers and over 235 law firms worldwide. He's worked with nearly half of the Amlaw 200.

[00:02:27] He's the author and co-author of 16 books on law firm business development and leadership. And he's the creator of Lawyer Book Builder, a step-by-step turnkey training and accountability program that shows lawyers how to become exceptional rainmakers. Always check out the show notes because you'll be able to connect with our guests like David directly. And in fact, we put the link for the Lawyer Book Builder in the show notes.

[00:02:51] As always, this show is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights, formerly known as Leopard Solutions, turn legal intelligence into opportunity. Thanks for listening, everyone. Check out the new digital magazine. And I hope you get some great ideas from our guest, David Freeman, today.

[00:03:09] Hey, this is Scott Love with the Rainmaking Podcast. Our guest today is David Freeman, and we're talking about launching as a lateral business development techniques to help laterals thrive in their new firms. David, thanks for joining me on the show. It's really a pleasure. I appreciate what you're doing to help educate a lot of lawyers out there with some of the techniques they can use to thrive.

[00:03:29] Thank you. And I think when, and I'll just kind of tee this up this way, my whole focus as a legal recruiter is to put people in platforms where they have a better chance of growing. And it's risky. It's a vulnerable part in someone's career when they're going from one firm to another. What have you seen? What's the overarching thing on your mind that a partner should keep in mind when going to that new firm so that they thrive and they can start rainmaking right away?

[00:03:54] You know, it's kind of, I liken it to someone who moves to a new school and they're the new kid and they don't know anybody at the lunch table. And so often what they have to do, even though I'll stretch the metaphor, the principal will say, yes, we'll introduce you to the other kids and so on.

[00:04:13] And it's really up to the individual partner to build the relationships. So back to the situation, a law firm, a law firm recruits, they'll meet the recruiting director, they'll meet the managing practice group leader of the group and so on. And there's a lot of promises that are made about how they're going to introduce them around the firm. And they may just do that. The mindset and mindset to me is critical. The mindset I think that most lateral should have is all of that is gravy. That's all extra. It's on me.

[00:04:42] I have to target the lawyers inside my firm that I have to become new friends with. I've got to build my allies inside the firm. And so the allies could be split, we could sort of say into two buckets. One, the lawyers, two or three buckets. The lawyers in their practice, the lawyers in other practices that they can either give work to or would like to receive work from. And then also the marketing and business development professions. This is a big one. This is subtle.

[00:05:11] I remember there was a lawyer that I coached a couple of years ago. And before he was going to a firm, we built his strategy. And one of the strategies was to find the right marketing person in the firm and say some version of, make believe you have absolute control of me. What would you do with me to maximize my potential here in the firm? And when he brought it up that way, the marketing person said, you know, lawyer has ever given us that permission.

[00:05:37] You know, we have this idea, you know, there's this group and we do this and we do that. And this person got so much value. And so tying this together, it's also connecting. I call it the role of the watcher to find people inside the firm to do things with on a consistent basis. Right. Let me ask you this. Are there preconceived ideas that people have, such as this marketing staff person that you mentioned? Do they have a preconceived idea that a new partner just doesn't want to be bothered, that they've figured things out, they don't want to be helped?

[00:06:07] What do you think? It's somewhere in between, but it often the marketing and business development people have felt some pain in the past. And so once burnt, twice shy. And so they don't like come in and go, here's everything, because often lawyers are not all that accepting of that. But again, the ones that are wired, that they want to grow their practice, grow the practice of the firm, cross sell, receive opportunities. They understand where their allies and where their passionate people are.

[00:06:37] And so I think there's sometimes a reluctance to come on very heavily from a marketing person to the new lateral. I can understand. So this is why, yeah, this is why the lateral needs to be the one to swing that door open and to give them permission and say, teach me. What are the conferences I should know about? Which other lawyers should I know about? Do you need anything with publication or PR?

[00:07:01] When you look at the marketing and business development department, their single most important job is to make every lawyer as wealthy as possible. To help them bring in as much revenue as possible. And there's sometimes some friction between that, because, of course, lawyers rightfully think that their job is to practice law. And I say that with air quotes because it's yes and.

[00:07:23] I mean, especially as we're moving more toward an AI future, the more law that's going to be taken up by the machines, the more the lawyers are going to have to be relationship people. Right. They're going to have to be really good internally, externally, client focused, referrals, building their brand, getting famous. I mean, I kind of jokingly say that business development is about getting famous and never letting your echo die. Right. Let me ask you this.

[00:07:52] Let me go back to that word allies. How would you define that and why did you use that word? So, first of all, I love the hero's journey. And as you're going through the trough of the hero's journey, you need to find your allies. But also there's allies on many different levels. The one that's usually presented to a lateral is we'll give you a lateral mentor, someone to help you through. OK. But then there are going to be lawyers in the practice that have the power to refer work to the new lateral.

[00:08:21] There will be lawyers in complementary practices that might have power and opportunity to refer work to the lateral and vice versa. The lateral may come in because my last firm couldn't do the full suite. So I have to build my trusted cohort of people inside the firm. I mean, the way that I look at a law firm, especially of size, is that it's really a series of micro law firms within a law firm.

[00:08:48] And what I mean by that is let's say that I'm a corporate lawyer and my client says, you know, we've got a litigation matter. I might have 120 partners who do litigation in the firm. I'm really going to think of one or two. Why? Because they're my allies. I've worked with them in the past. We've been helpful to each other. We know each other personally. There's a level of comfort. I understand their service. So the new lateral has to come in and start building these new relationships.

[00:09:17] And it's a very proactive technique. I mean, one of the first things I recommend is for them to sweep through the website and to come up with the names of all of the partners generally that they feel like they should build relationships with. If they don't know right off the bat, go to the practice group leader of that group. You know, transparency. This is what I'm looking to do. I know everybody's going to thrive if I build the right relationship. So who should I get to know?

[00:09:44] And then another ally thing related to it is if I am going to build a new friendship with somebody, usually I need to show up with some gifts. I love my air quotes. And so what are my gifts? You know, it could be that I'm happy to do a review of their policies and procedures in this area. If I'm an IP lawyer, I'm happy to review their trademark portfolio. Happy, happy, happy. So every lawyer I know has some gifts that they're willing to give, but the rest of the firm doesn't know it.

[00:10:14] Even lifetime legacy lawyers, other lawyers in the firm don't know their gifts. So the challenge with cross-selling, because every lawyer kind of knows they're supposed to cross-sell, but just about every firm is bad at it, or at least not great at it. And so when you look at that, it must be because there's obstacles in the way. One of the obstacles is the lawyers don't know each other well enough. They don't know what they could offer to their clients on behalf of other lawyers in the firm. And they don't want to look like salespeople.

[00:10:44] You know, like, hey, you need to use our corporate group. Why? Because we need more revenue? No. We need the corporate lawyer to arm that lawyer to say, I'm happy. I have this checklist that I'm happy to go through with any of your clients if that would be helpful. I'm happy to do a training on this and that. It just lubricates the machine. Right. So back to laterals, the more that they can meet the right people, and just like dating to marriage, most people don't get married on a first date.

[00:11:12] They need to have many dates before there's that level of comfort. I'm going to take a half step back. I'm a big fan of progress measures. So with a lateral, let's say they identify 20 partners. So then we'll come up with a strategy that might be something like, all right, over the next six months, let's come up with at least five or six times you could be in touch with those people. Because frequency begets comfort. Absolutely right. Yeah. So it's this kind of strategic approach coming in. And this is just the internal. We're not even talking about external yet. Right.

[00:11:42] This is interesting. Let me kind of recap what you talked about. I like the fact that you started with the concept, you're the new kid in school. And when you come into the new kid in school, nobody likes to see the new kid like, hey, everybody, look at my letter jacket from my previous school. Look at all the trophies I have. It has to be, hey, I'm here to be a helpful resource. I like that. And you have to realize these are people that don't know you. Yes, they're tied to you because you wear the same jersey as what they do, but you're still the new kid in school. I think that's a really good way to explain that.

[00:12:11] I was a military brat, so I moved every three years. So, yes, I'm used to that. You lived it. And I like the fact you segment it into three different people, lawyers in their own practice, lawyer in other practices that are connected, and then marketing and BD professionals. And what's interesting, what you mentioned about build a plan, I'd even advise many partners when they're at the LPQ phase, which stands for long, painful questionnaire. That's when they're really putting down the data on the lateral partner questionnaire.

[00:12:40] Write up a mini business plan. Spend time on the site. Who are the practices? Who are the people that you'd love to meet with so that if and when we get to that point where they're talking about the business case, you've already thought this through. And so let me ask you this. Do you recommend a new lateral joining firm? Should they spend time on paper and write this plan out? What do you think about that, David? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, the more you could write something out, the better. Yeah.

[00:13:04] And, you know, a process that's attached to this is in my coaching, I'll often ask, so what is the system that you have to guarantee that you will implement your business development? Ooh, guarantee. That's kind of a word I don't put together with business development. And then when I ask them, talk to me about your list of your prospects, your most high value people. Where does that list live?

[00:13:28] It's usually a variation of in my head, in a folder, inside other folders, somewhere here, somewhere there. And I recommend that they create something that I lovingly call the memory matrix. The memory matrix. Okay. What is that? Memory matrix, which is very simple. It's an Excel spreadsheet. Down the left-hand column is the name of everybody who's important to you that you don't want to forget about. Now, and then going across the rows, where are we now? We're in August. August, September, October, November. I'm sorry, going across the column.

[00:13:58] So each column would be the months of the year. And then if they have a system where they're checking in with people now, they're never going to forget these people. And they look and they see a gap of two to three months. That's too long. I need to reach out to Scott. Let me come up with an excuse. And I call this the 30-second rule because many times lawyers shoot themselves in the foot before they even get started. Oh, they don't want to hear from me. They're too busy. They're just story after story.

[00:14:26] So I ask them to put that little gremlin aside and allow the 30-second rule to come in and ask yourself the question, what did I do to comfortably reach out to this person? And then with coaching, we come up with ideas and all that stuff. But having a visual reference tool and you've got your top 50, 100 people and you see a two, three-month gap, you stop. Boom, you reach out. I mean, I just did this, a lawyer at an Amlaw 10 firm two days ago.

[00:14:54] She created her memory matrix a month ago. We had our coaching call two days ago and she just laughed. And she said, I looked at the memory matrix. I saw I hadn't been in touch with this person. I reached out. I got a piece of work. And so it's just the game of just being top of mind so that people don't forget you. You've got to keep that echo alive. And that's a challenge for laterals, especially at a firm, just they're the new people. So they're going to get forgotten.

[00:15:20] Even if there's a big announcement and they're standing up in front of the firm retreat, hi, I do this, I do that. In five minutes, they're forgotten. So it takes a targeted effort for them to push themselves into the fabric of the culture of the firm. And I've got techniques around that that I could share as well. This is great because it's simple. It's not complex. You say, get an Excel spreadsheet. Nobody's like, well, I got to take a class on that. I've got, you know, it's like everybody knows how to do it. It's simply how long will it take for them to set that up? 20 seconds.

[00:15:50] They can do it. They're taking action. They're doing something. I like the fact every month. What would you say? Like have them put like an X when they make contact with people in certain months? Yeah. I mean, my favorite thing is to take the cell and just fill it in black. So it's stark. And then you just see black, white, white. And you do it any color you want. Oh, right. But this way. So some people want to like put notes in the cell and all that stuff because it, you know, can help remind them.

[00:16:18] You could, but it's doing two things instead of one. I want the memory matrix to just be the slap in the face that reminds you, I should be in touch. Then you could go dive in, but it's simple. It's easy. You don't have to scroll super deeply. And then another little subtlety to this is let's say that you think that there should be for Scott Love, there should be a three month touch sequence. All right. So you and I talk today in three months, I'll put yellow in that box.

[00:16:47] Three months after yellow in that box. So this way, when November, I'm doing it right, shows up, I just look down the column. I see yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow. It reminds me who to be in touch with. So it's just, you know, an idiot-proofing way to remind you not to let the most important people in your career slip away. That's fantastic. That's so simple and so doable and anybody can do it and it takes no time to do it. I don't, you know, you start with one name, you know, it's like, oh, I have a lot

[00:17:16] of names, take five minutes, whip out the first names that come to you. And then as you're kind of going through your days and days, another name, put it in, another name, put it in. You don't have to go take a deep dive into this immediately. It really is simple. And this can be lawyers in the firm, external existing clients, former clients, prospective

[00:17:38] clients, referral sources, media sources, whoever is important, who can leverage you forward in your career. Put them somewhere so you never forget them. That's great. I mean, one of the things I often tell the lawyers I coach is you spend a career trying to collect important people and then you let them go away. You don't have a system for holding on and reminding.

[00:18:01] So that in itself is probably one of my most subtle, small, but big techniques, because sometimes it's not the sexy idea that's going to win. It's just being there consistently and being out in front for when the time is right. Absolutely right. Let me ask you this question and I'll preface it by saying I like the fact that you put the burden of responsibility on that individual partner or group leader that moved over. And I think the best way I would explain that is in healthcare.

[00:18:30] You can't expect your healthcare practitioner to drive the process. You have to take responsibility. What do we need to do next? Are there any tests that we need to do? Things like that, right? Yes. And I think just it's a shared burden with you and your healthcare provider. I think the same thing with the partner that joins, but really the burden is on the partner. Because if the book doesn't grow, who's going to get in trouble? The partner. And so let's say somebody tries this and they're going through it and they're just not seeing the results that they want. What do you think that person should do?

[00:19:00] Or what have you seen in similar scenarios where six months later, they're just not getting traction within that firm. What do you think they should do? Yeah. It's a big question. There's probing questions under that question that you're giving. But if they're not targeting the right people, there's going to have to be some reflection. Am I not targeting the right people? Am I not following up in a good way? Does my personality stink? You know, I mean, this is a reality. Some people don't want to work with other people. Have I just not found my tribe?

[00:19:30] And, you know, there are certain personalities that jive with each other more than others. Maybe I'm not offering enough value to them to make them comfortable to go out there. I mean, there's a book called Giftology and it's the art of giving gifts to increase business, get referrals and so on. And he's got a phrase that you need to be a giverpreneur. You need to be in the business of giving. And so I'll take a half step back from your question. I'm a big fan of measuring the right things.

[00:19:59] Now, law firms measure lag indicators. They measure revenue and hours. But that's only going to happen if the right things are done up front, the lead indicators. So measure the number of times you're talking to other lawyers in the firm. Measure the number of gifts. Measure the opportunities that you're giving to other lawyers in the firm to either get work, get visibility in conferences, co-author. You know, just it's kind of like I've got three kids.

[00:20:29] And whenever the school year would start, I would say to them, do me a favor. For the first three weeks to a month, can you exceed expectations in your classroom? Because that's going to set the tone for the rest of the year. Make sure you're on time. Do your homework really well. Raise your hand and talk. And then that sets an impression. And if you remember the old head and shoulders commercial, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. When a lateral comes in, that first, you know, 30, 60, 90 days is critical.

[00:20:58] So I recommend, I mean, there was a story, I remember, of a lateral. A lawyer on a Friday afternoon sent a message out to the firm saying, hey, I really need help doing X. This brand new lateral wrote back immediately, I'm your guy, happy to do it. Nailed it over the weekend. It was done by Monday. The lawyer was thrilled with the work. Hold everybody. That was a wow moment. So one of my fun measures is how can you wow as many people as you can?

[00:21:27] Again, we're not even talking about externally yet. We're really just talking the internal world. And you join certain committees and offer to do things that maybe have been languishing. And of course, strategically be in the right committee where the people are there that you want to get to know. I remember one lateral, he came in and he was put on the comp committee. That shit. Needless to say, that gave me incredible street cred right away in front of the rest of the firm.

[00:21:56] So if you can get a leadership title, that's another way, because then it gives you clout. It gives you, quote unquote, permission to reach out to other people in the firm as a leader. I want to talk to you about, fill in the blank. But get noticed, get seen and stand out. That's great. This is like I recommend for any lawyer. If you're going to a conference, try to take a speaking position. Try to be a leader at an organization. So you give yourself permission to be seen as more equal than other equals.

[00:22:26] At an animal farm. Everybody's saying that some are more equal than others. That's right. So lots of different techniques there. And then, of course, externally, the idea of building your ally base inside the firm. This way, you've got a great story to go out to your market. Hey, I just joined XYZ firm. I met these three lawyers and I really think you should meet them. They are so brilliant in this area. And here's their gifts. And they're happy to do X, Y, and Z for you. So you've got a great excuse to reach out to the network.

[00:22:55] You've got a great way to build relationships in the firm. It's a beautiful sandwich that one could put together to get the win-win internally and externally. That's great, David. I love all those ideas. Let's just say that there are pitfalls that somebody should look out for as they make transition. What do you think are the biggest pitfalls, the danger spots as they make this transition coming into new firm? They should keep top of mind. Yeah. You know, the assumption that work, even if it's been promised to you, the assumption that work is just going to come to you.

[00:23:25] Also, you know, the fact that even though you were announced and introduced around, again, this is a car roller off the other one, but that people will remember you. You've got to go and make yourself very, very memorable. You know, it's the thing that you, you know, it's important to get involved in the culture of the firm quickly. So to just kind of sit it out and to just go do your thing and sit in your office and not build relationships with people.

[00:23:54] I mean, there's a reason why big firms exist. A lot of times it's a hotel for lawyers. We know that, right? They come in, they do their work, they leave. I remember reading a statistic from BTI Consulting and they talked about average firms, the clients used 1.8 practices. In exceptionally collaborative firms, clients used 3.2 practices. That's 70 some odd percent more revenue. Yeah.

[00:24:20] So firms that can create the cross-pollination better, they're going to thrive. But then again, that word firm is amorphous. And this is what you brought up earlier. It's about the individual lawyer because a firm is only the constellation of the actions of the individual lawyers. Every lawyer is the culture. So to make a great first impression, they've got to come in and just wow everybody around them, be the most helpful, gift-giving, supportive, sharing person possible. There's that book, Give and Take.

[00:24:50] They talk about, you know, givers statistically generally get more coming back to them. Takers, people are not as excited to want to give them stuff. So these are behaviors that are important for people to think about. That's great, David. As we bring our conversation to a close, if you could summarize three action steps for that partner that just made that transition, what would those three action steps be? I think it's a little bit of a summary.

[00:25:14] So I think number one is create a really solid plan and get down to tactics, get down to names, get down to dates. Because I often see business development plans. I'll speak twice a year. I'll go to two conferences. Now, tell me what you're going to do wrapped around that. Go into tremendous detail. First of all, it's going to make a great impression on the practice group leader. And then it's going to give you a step-by-step roadmap instead of flailing away. That's great. With that, create the great list.

[00:25:44] Take time, go through your network of who you know, as well as the people that you want to meet, create something like the memory matrix. And that's powerful. And I think the bow that ties it all up is to make sure you have a personal system where you guarantee that you're going to be involved in business development on an ongoing basis. And, you know, a rare number of lawyers are self-starters enough in this area that they don't need somebody else or something else.

[00:26:13] But it could be plug in 15 minutes to the beginning of your day in Outlook. Get marketing. Have a standing meeting with marketing once a month. Find a BD buddy, another lawyer in the firm who's equally, if not more motivated than you to do business development and have a, whatever it is, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly lunch. Have like wrap your support system around you so that you have the watchers that hold you accountable. This is why we have coaches and trainers and so on.

[00:26:41] They make sure we go and nail the fundamentals. And this is a game of just exercising the fundamentals. David, this has to be the most amazing technique in the planet. Yeah, go ahead. That's just fantastic. How simple you make it where everybody can do it. And there's little downside in putting forth the effort when you give us such a simple system. And tell us about you. What do you have? What do you do that you'd like for our listeners to know about? And for everybody listening, check out the show notes and you'll be able to connect with David directly. Yeah, no, no. Thank you for that.

[00:27:10] I've been doing this now for 30 plus years. I've trained and coached well over 10,000 lawyers at over 240 firms worldwide. And so it's really all about the techniques for what it takes to become a rainmaker. And actually, I recently built an online program called Lawyer Book Builder. And this is a way that all of my 30 years working with thousands of lawyers, I've put into an online process. So it's a way that you can have access to everything I've learned, so to speak, over that

[00:27:40] time period. And then there's a fun little tool actually on the David Freeman Consulting dot com website. It's called the Return on Potential Calculator. It's right there up in the hero section at the top of the page. And you click on it and it basically walks you through a process to show where you're leaving money on the table. It's really kind of eye-opening to see that if you just did more cross-selling, if you just did more conferences, this, that, and the other, how much money is actually waiting for you if you do it better?

[00:28:11] Interesting. So we're going to put the link to your course and then also the link to the tool that you mentioned, David, on the show notes for everybody listening. David, thank you for being a guest on the show. I'd love to have you back on in the future. Great job. And thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. Scott, it was really a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to The Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website

[00:28:40] at attorneysearchgroup.com. To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com. Thank you.