TRP 271: [Legal] Rainmakers without Umbrellas with Randy Peck and Jordan Peck

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high-stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love. You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thanks for joining me on the show. If you're a law firm leader going through a merger, how do you know that those executive benefits you have won't get dropped?

[00:00:35] If you're a partner or a group going to join another firm, moving from one firm to another, that's the same question I'd ask you. How do you know those benefits aren't going to get dropped? Well, one way you can make sure that you don't have that gap is by working with a firm like Peck Financial. Randy and Jordan Peck are joining me today on our show, and our topic title is Rainmakers without Umbrellas. This is an important topic for those law firm partners and firms that are going through a significant transition.

[00:01:04] Peck Financial is an established industry leader specializing in executive benefit solutions. For more than 30 years, their core business is focused on developing and administering employer-sponsored executive disability, life, and long-term care insurance plans. Randy Peck is the CEO, and Jordan Peck is the VP of Business Development.

[00:01:25] I've put both of their bio links and contact information in the show notes, so when you're done listening to this, go to the show notes wherever you listen to the show, and you can reach out and contact them directly. As always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions' legal intelligence suite of products, Firmscape and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. And now here's my conversation with Randy Peck and Jordan Peck. Thanks for listening.

[00:01:53] Hey, this is Scott Love with the Rainmaking Podcast. Our guests today are both Randall Peck and Jordan Peck with Peck Financial. And our topic today is Rainmakers without Umbrellas. Randy and Jordan, thanks for joining me on the show today. Thanks for having us, Scott. It's good to be here. Yeah, good seeing you too, Jordan. It's good to see you again, and thanks for introducing me to your colleague, Randy.

[00:02:15] And I like the fact that you all are niched specifically and deeply into the legal industry, and you've seen a lot, and you have solutions that we'll talk about here. But I like this topic title, Rainmakers Umbrellas. And Randy, let me ask you this. What does that mean? What is a Rainmaker without an umbrella? How would you define that for us? Well, as you know, Scott, partner and attorney compensation has dramatically increased in the few decades that I've been working in the field.

[00:02:42] And what we have found is that these very successful and busy people often are very client-focused and often neglect to think about their own needs. And so when we think about or consulting with them on behalf of them, et cetera, we often find that their insurance, various insurance programs, life insurance, disability insurance, et cetera, are often not keeping pace with their compensation.

[00:03:12] And so when I think about a Rainmaker without umbrellas, or maybe not having a big enough umbrella, if you will, it's getting that partner to make themselves a client of themselves and sit down and think about what their needs are as if they were their own client, if you will. And just take a look at those exposures. Do they have enough disability insurance if they can't do the work that they do every day? If God forbid they were, they didn't come home tomorrow.

[00:03:42] Would their families have sufficient resources? And as their compensation is increased, these are things that have to be continuously monitored and revisited and thought about as unappealing as it might be to think about themselves in that type of situation. Right. Have you personally seen the downside actually happen to attorneys when they just don't have a big enough umbrella? Yeah, I've seen a couple of different situations.

[00:04:05] I've seen it both where they were fortunate enough that they had at least the coverage that they had through their firms. Because had they not had those coverages, their families would have been left with nothing. So you could look at the glass as half full. But one could also say they should have had more because they were a partner and their family was limited to whatever their firms had provided.

[00:04:31] We've seen situations where a partner's health, you know, they got diagnosed with something and now they're not as insurable. And because they didn't pay enough attention to it early enough in their careers, they can't do much about it. And they're kind of left with what they have. Why do you think it gets to that point? Again, I just think it's a matter of prioritizing. That's why I often tell them, you know, when we sit down and discuss these issues with a partner, you know, when do you want to have all this work done?

[00:05:00] Can you make yourself a client? Can you prioritize this? Or is it going to be another one of those things that just kind of lingers and you'll get to it when you get to it? And so that's what happens all too often. Yeah, that's unfortunate when that does happen. As somebody goes through a change, and let me ask you first, though, what are those changes in their careers that really might bring this front and center as to why this needs to be a priority?

[00:05:25] Well, of course, you know, everybody kind of starts out similarly with big plans and they work hard and they make a lot of sacrifices. But over time, you know, I would say more partners than not will have a family. You know, they'll find that significant other. They may have children and they will have dependents and their needs change over time.

[00:05:47] So that partner who's in their, you know, early 40s, their need profile for additional protection is a lot different than when they were in their early 30s, potentially. Absolutely right. What about when they go from one firm to another firm? Is that something that that's a significant inflection point? Yeah, that's that's an opportunity where I think they're probably focused on everything but their benefits. They figure, well, I'll just get what the new firm has.

[00:06:14] And they often don't think about, well, what did I have at my prior firm? What can I continue? What makes sense for me to continue? You know, as a firm that has focused on providing partner benefits for the last, I guess, 30 years now, we often help firms think about, you know, what their partners should have. I can't tell you the number of times we've walked into a firm and I said, well, why is it this level? And they said, I don't know. It's always been that level.

[00:06:41] And so we end up trying to tweak those programs to make those coverages not only more significant, but also portable. And so when they move from firm A to firm B, oftentimes they can keep some of those portable coverages having nothing to do with their prior firm. They'll have a relationship specifically with that insurance company. But life insurance, disability insurance, long term care insurance, those things can be portable.

[00:07:04] And so could you imagine if you have somebody who's not as insurable today who could then sort of keep what they had and pick up what they're getting at the new firm? And all of a sudden now they've got a much more robust package than they had previously. And so they don't think about it until we when we talk to a new lateral at one of the clients that we represent and we're standing up the new coverage for them.

[00:07:28] We almost always say, can you get us a copy of what your old firm mailed you so we could at least help you understand if there's any value in maintaining of that? Ideally, if someone's about to make a move, it wouldn't be a terrible idea for them to take stock in. What are my portable benefits? What can I keep? You know, so they know that a little ahead of time. So they're not scrambling along with with respect to benefits, along with trying to move their client relationships.

[00:07:56] This is really interesting. I've been in the recruiting industry, Randy and Jordan, for 30 years, half of that in legal. I've moved a lot of partners, a significant number, even groups over. And that just hasn't been part of my standard operating procedures is to advise them on that. I always advise them, read your partnership agreement. Look at, of course, through the data of which clients are portable.

[00:08:17] You have to manage your ethics fiduciary responsibilities in terms of not talking to your clients or other counselor associates in your firm until you're gone. But everything else, we're kind of getting ready for that move. But this is something I've just never thought of before, the portable benefits. Yet, what you mentioned, the downside risk is high enough.

[00:08:37] This is part of my daily, this is going to be my daily SOP at this point from now on, is to make sure that they're going through their current inventory of risk management assets, so to speak. So let's kind of talk about the person at that point. They're thinking of moving or they've decided they want to move. And they're far along with several firms. And they might start talking about getting an offer. They've gone through the diligence. Everybody knows what the book is like and how much they think is going to port over.

[00:09:04] At what point should that partner consider taking an inventory of these assets that you mentioned, Randy? Well, I think it's always important for them to have a better understanding of what it is that they have, right? And do they have the right amount of coverage and have somebody that's kind of monitoring that inventory, for lack of a better word, independently?

[00:09:25] But if they're at the stage in which that you're talking about, it's never too early to start to understand, you know, what it is that they're being either required to pay for or what they have elected optionally and what's portable in terms of their life and their disability insurance. I think they'll focus. I think everybody knows they can move their defined contribution plan. They can roll it over potentially to their new plan. I mean, they're thinking about the dollars.

[00:09:53] When they're thinking about the dollars, they're focused on it. When they're thinking about the benefits, again, they're not. So I guess the answer to that is I would take stock in it, even if you weren't making a move, try to understand. But more importantly, as you get much closer, not only do you want to know what you can port, but you want to know what those firms that you're considering have lined up for you. That's interesting. And so kind of give me an inventory.

[00:10:21] What are these things that they should be taking stock of? So income protection is probably the biggest one that comes to mind because they're making a move to make more money most of the time, I would think. And so making sure you have adequate income protection coverage. And the group policies generally don't move when you're moving from one firm to another.

[00:10:45] The portability and conversion features are rather null and void if you're moving within 30 days from one firm to another. But your domestic individual disability insurance, which has become mainstay among AMLO 100-200 firms to supplement the group policies, those are portable. Those contain rates that were fixed at your age of issue, contain deep discounts. So those are policies that can port with you.

[00:11:11] So contractually, you're going to need a professional to probably compare the nuances in the contract to the new contract because, you know, just because it's a disability policy of X amount doesn't mean it's got the same elimination periods and contract language and so forth. So that's something I don't expect them to be able to do, but at least understand what they have. Life insurance is another one because you want to protect your insurability.

[00:11:35] Even if you plan on getting different life insurance, it's always good to have at least a window where you know you're going to have continuity. And, you know, a couple of million dollars of extra life insurance for a high-income earner to maintain that is a smart idea. Some firms have long-term care. Obviously, that was purchased by that partner to be there when they retire. So that's something, obviously, they're going to want to continue.

[00:12:00] And we're seeing more firms start to pay attention to that issue because there is some high statistics that people will need long-term care services after age 65. Believe it or not, something like 70%, according to Health and Human Services, people will need long-term care services. So that's something they need to pay attention to, even if they have the financial wherewithal. But nonetheless, I'm not here to sell insurance today, but that's something we have to pay attention to.

[00:12:26] And I'd like Jordan to chime in here as it relates to international partners who may be covered on the U.S. domestic plan, but wouldn't otherwise have access to U.S. coverage. Jordan, you want to make a couple of statements around that? Yeah, on the international side, you know, some carriers have pulled out of different countries.

[00:12:47] And so depending on where that individual lives, they might not be included in the new plan in which their new firm mandates. That paired with the fact that if they're moving to an international firm, they might no longer be eligible for U.S. coverage by cutting those ties. And so there are considerations to be taken there.

[00:13:11] I do want to dig a bit deeper into Randy's mention about income protection plans, because even though the benefit might be the same from one firm to another, and it might be the same carrier from one firm to another, the contract provisions can vary significantly. Some might not have coverage for mental and nervous disorders, which we're seeing more and more for, you know, hard-driving attorneys who might have some sort of, you know,

[00:13:40] whether it's anxiety, whether it's stress, whether it's burnout, some of the income protection or disability insurance policies. Some cover that and some don't. And so it's important to know whether that's included in it, along with some other writers. And it's like all of these things you're talking about, Jordan and Randy, and especially this most recent one, Jordan, is this information that a partner can easily find out just by reading the contract? Or what do you think?

[00:14:08] If they speak language of insurance, it's a lot easier. But insurance, vernacular and language is a bit more guarded than what even a finance attorney might understand. So they can review the contract, but it might not be as, you know, boldly defined as some of the other work that they're doing. In that case, we recommend they have a professional, someone they either work with.

[00:14:34] Our firm is always available to assist in that regard, but they should ask their benefits department. You know, obviously they don't want to flag that they're potentially making a move before they're making a move. So to call up and say, hey, what benefits are portable could, you know, maybe be tipping your hand. But they should get some understanding, you know, how's our disability benefits and life insurance benefits structured?

[00:15:00] I'm doing some financial planning, you know, which one of those benefits are, can I continue? And so just basically just, you know, I don't think the benefits department is going to pick up the phone and call somebody for getting a question about what benefits are portable, because it is a routine kind of question to understand that. But to dig into the contractual definitions and alike, it does often require professional to kind of opine on that.

[00:15:29] I just want to make, just circle back a couple seconds on the international piece, because, you know, we work pretty hard to, a lot of the firms we represent have international offices, and we work pretty hard to create parity as best that we can. And we'll work with, you know, domestic carriers to extend life insurance or lawyers to extend enough income protection. But we've seen situations where someone does go to a new firm and they don't cover international.

[00:15:53] So it does make it more valuable even for those folks to ensure that they continue the coverage when joining the new firm, or at least going through the process of evaluating. So at least they don't get there and, you know, all of a sudden realize that they made a mistake. Got it. Okay, good. That's really good. Let me ask you this question. What about firms merging in with other firms? What should they be careful of to make sure of that they have everything when they're going through this process?

[00:16:22] So we've encountered that quite a number of times. And so let's say you're onboarding a number of partners into a new firm. We'll do an evaluation of those portable benefits to see how they can either be maintained by the new acquiring firm, maybe on there they can still handle the payroll deduction for those folks,

[00:16:46] or we need to separately communicate with each one of those partners to expressly share the value of those policies so they understand, you know, that there was value in maintaining those policies. And then how do they coordinate with their new coverage? And how are they different? And we see this quite often. And again, it's just communication, breaking it down so a partner can understand it, helping them to focus on it.

[00:17:13] Again, putting a Calendly link or something like that so they can, you know, quickly get online with one of us and say, okay, tell me a little bit about this. But I think we both know that they're busy, they're moving their book, they're trying to keep clients. It's hard for them to focus, but we're there to help them if they want the help. And I like how you mentioned that, Randy. They need to be their own, representing themselves as a client. They got to make themselves a client or they won't get anything done. I think that gives them some structure and how they can really visualize that.

[00:17:43] And that's actually funny because there was another partner that was negotiating Cobb. And he said, I feel bad asking for these things and talking about this. And I said, just think of yourself. You're representing yourself in a deal. And it's totally fine for you to do that. And I like that we can tell them, you're representing yourself on a transition. And if you don't take care to make sure that one small detail is missed, then other people are going to miss it because it's not what they're thinking about. And you might be the one that goes through the downside as a result of that.

[00:18:14] Let me ask you this one question. And then I wanted to kind of get into some final questions here. But what do you think is the biggest pitfall that people face as they go through this transition? Is it just missing something or not keeping it top of mind? What do you think is the biggest pitfall in regards to their benefits as they're transitioning? I would say 90% of them are just looking right past it. I'm just going to get what I'm going to get from my new firm.

[00:18:39] You know, because we have a large number of firms that we represent, sometimes we're able to be proactive because we have a partner moving from one of the firms we represent to another firm we represent. In that case, it's easy. And we can be their advocate and help them understand those issues. But there's a lot of firms out there. So, you know, I think at the end of the day, anybody who's making a move needs to be thoughtful about the programs that they have, how much money they're going to potentially be making at the new firm, what's going to be available.

[00:19:08] They should be evaluating the benefits at those candidates. Just as if you were going through an M&A transaction. If you're going through an M&A transaction, you have to align those things. It's part of the HR due diligence. Yeah, kind of like that's what executive comp partners do on the deals within the firms. Except we're going to do it for themselves. Yeah, somebody needs to do it for themselves, like you said. Exactly right. I think there's a lot of wisdom with what you shared today, Randy and Jordan, and it's something I just don't see in terms of the lateral recruiting world.

[00:19:38] Talking about such an important consideration. So I want to thank you for being here today. And one thing I'm going to do, every partner that I talk to that's moving, I'm going to share this recording with them just to give them some structure and advice. And so if we could kind of summarize in three action steps partners should take in doing what you mentioned, what would those three recommendations be in terms of an action step format? Periodically evaluate your own coverage. Be your own advocate in that regard.

[00:20:07] This way you'll know what it is that you have and what it is you want to maintain if you do want to have relief. We talked about the next step would be if you are thinking about it seriously, get on your benefit portal, print out what it is that you have, and get together with an insurance professional to help you better understand those programs.

[00:20:30] And then as you're thinking, thirdly, as you're thinking about a candidate firm that you might be going to, request that from, you know, the parties that be to, powers that be to say, you know, what it is that is going to be available to me at the new firm. And then again, working with your professional, is that going to be enough to meet your needs based on where you are in your life today? That's great. That's great. Thank you, Randy, for sharing that. And then also you, Jordan.

[00:20:57] And then tell us before we go about what your company does. What services do you have? What would you like our listeners to know about Peck Financial? We work with, obviously, many, many law firms and some professional firms with high-performing, high-income people. Generally, their needs are above and beyond what's available in the typical group benefits marketplace. So they need some nuanced executive benefits.

[00:21:25] They like our firm helps to evaluate existing plans for cost competitiveness, help those firms benchmark with their peers, help them understand where they are. Some of them don't feel they need to be at the top, but they also don't want to be at the bottom. So helping them periodically review that. We then make any adjustments to those benefits, implement those benefits, obviously help in time of claim.

[00:21:53] We like to say that 50% of our job is to help a client firm make an informed decision. The other half is to help keep that carrier's promise at time of claim. I just saw an email go off as I'm sitting here that a big claim got paid on a very difficult claim of a large law firm partner. And then just help them think about post-retirement and those partners, what can they do? What can the firm be doing to help those partners potentially put more money away?

[00:22:19] And we haven't really talked about this on the show here, but are there strategies that the partners individually should be doing? So in that regard, we do financial wellness meetings for partners to help them think about at their partner luncheons, what they should be thinking about at various stages in their career. And so firms will often record those sessions, share them with new partners, whether that's in a deck or a video like this.

[00:22:46] And, you know, that's pretty much keeps us busy and has kept us in business for over 30 years. And I'm fortunate that Jordan Pack has also joined our firm so that we can continue to be the same customer-centric white glove service to our firms and the partners, you know, for the next few decades. That's terrific, Randy and Jordan. Thank you both for being here and for sharing this wisdom. Great job.

[00:23:11] And to everybody listening, make sure you check out the show notes where you hear this podcast because we'll put all of their contact information and you can connect directly with them from there. Thank you, Randy. And thank you, Jordan. Great job today. Thank you very much for having us. Thank you for listening to The Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com.

[00:23:40] To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.