TRP 261: [Legal] Business Development Is Career Development with Lana Manganiello

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love. You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thank you for joining me on the show.

[00:00:29] This episode is a specific episode for those in the legal industry. The ideas apply to other professional services, but because of the real focus niche of our guest today, I thought it would be appropriate for me to put this on the Sometimes Tuesdays episode, where we're focusing mostly on the legal industry on Tuesdays. Our guest is Lana Manganiello. She's a law firm growth leader, an attorney business development coach, and also a lateral integration strategist for law firms.

[00:00:56] Lana has over 15 years of experience in business development, sales management, and professional coaching. She's a recognized leader in elevating legal professionals and their practices. Our topic of discussion today is business development is career development, where she gives ideas, action steps, and other solutions for those listening to the show. When you get a minute, make sure you connect with her on our show notes, where we have all of her contact info and her LinkedIn link.

[00:01:22] And as always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions, legal intelligence suite of products, Firmscape and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. And now here's my conversation with our guest, Lana Manganiello. Thanks for listening. Hey, this is Scott Love with The Rainmaking Podcast. Our special guest today is Lana Manganiello. And our topic is business development is career development. Lana, thanks for joining me on the show today.

[00:01:52] Hey, Scott. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. It's nice to have a real subject matter expert like you that's deeply niched within legal because you see all things, people in business development, people thinking of getting out of law firm life and going in-house. So let me kind of ask you this question. The question is why? Why is business development really career development? Why do you say that?

[00:02:14] Well, I work with people who are at all different stages and even more senior practitioners are oftentimes kind of rethinking what does growth and what does the future look like for them? And, you know, one thing that oftentimes comes up is, you know, this lack of clarity of knowing exactly where they want to go puts them in a bit of a holding pattern.

[00:02:37] And the truth is, no matter if you want to become equity partner, grow your practice at your current firm, move to another firm or even go in-house. A lot of the activities that are required for business development are the same activities you would need to do to explore those other avenues.

[00:02:59] So, you know, that idea of growing your visibility, growing your network, it's going to put you in a better position no matter where your career takes you. So is this something, do you find a lot of in-house attorneys, do they think, you know, maybe I should just go in-house so I don't have to be in client development and do business development anymore? Do you think that happens to a lot of people?

[00:03:22] I think people don't quite know what going in-house all entails necessarily. And so they think, you know, I'm unhappy with my current circumstances. I don't know how I can make this work for myself. So in-house is the next alternative.

[00:03:41] And so that's oftentimes what I see and find that leveraging business development, starting to build a book, starting to create more autonomy in your own practice and be kind of the person who decides what you're working on and who you're working with,

[00:03:59] creates more options in your own practice and understanding how you're working on and who you're working on and who you're working on and who you're working on and who you're working on.

[00:04:26] So that's what they're working on and what you're working on and who you're working on and who you're working on and who you're working on. So let's say there's somebody there with the firm, mid-size firm, doing middle market work. Their book of business, their own clients, maybe it's 500K. It's not a lot. It's not enough to move to another firm that has a minimum threshold of, let's say, 2 million. And they're thinking, if I go in-house, that's okay. I like doing the work as a private practice. How long do you think they can build up that book to 2 million? I mean, what have you seen?

[00:04:55] And I want to kind of get into that a little bit more about how they would do that. But what have you seen in terms of a timeline, people that you've worked with to where they can really build something up, that here's a robust book that they have now. It gives them options. Yeah, I mean, I've seen that happen over the course of a couple of years, depending on what they've already done, what they can leverage in their own organizations.

[00:05:16] I think a lot of people aren't looking internally enough and seeing how can they build their book by building internal relationships with their colleagues. And so the timeline is dependent on the person and the priority that they're putting on this. But I think, you know, it can happen in a matter of two years. Yeah, sure, sure. So let's say somebody decides, I'm not sure what I want to do.

[00:05:45] I might want to go in-house at some point. I don't like being here with a small book. I think I'm going to build that book. How do you think that exercise in itself can give them a lot of upside if they stay with their firm? And how can that also give them upside if they decide to go in-house? Yeah, so, I mean, the main things that I'm working with people on are visibility that aligns with credibility.

[00:06:10] So, you know, making sure the marketplace is very much aware of their skills and expertise and when to call on them. Being known as the go-to person in a specific area. So obviously that's going to attract business, but it also is going to attract attention from potential organizations that might want to hire you as in-house counsel. And then the other part of that is, you know, relationships.

[00:06:36] So really being intentional about who you're building and bolstering relationships with in service of this visibility around this expertise that you're really cultivating in the marketplace is going to be helpful in paving the way for new business and also for potential employment, if that is what you're looking for.

[00:07:02] And so balancing those two things of really being intentional about how you're getting your name out in the marketplace and getting credit for the work that you're doing. And then also being thoughtful about real strategic relationships is going to create all of the options, including staying where you are and kind of leveraging the fact that you have a book.

[00:07:28] Because a lot of things, I mean, I'm sure you've seen this as well, is once you have the leverage that comes with a substantial book, you can make changes inside of your organization and then you may ultimately decide to stay where you are. That's right. That's a great way to put that. Have you seen people where they just, they hesitate? Well, I'll get to it later. And they hesitate and then they miss their opportunities. Do you see that a lot?

[00:07:56] Lawyers procrastinating when it comes to marketing and business development. Yes, I see that constantly. That's going to forever be the struggle. Everybody has to actually do the work that I work with at least. So that is something that we're always battling. Whether or not they miss the opportunity, I don't think you miss it. I think sometimes people think that they have to be at a certain stage of their practice to start thinking about it. I think that is a huge missed opportunity.

[00:08:27] You know, I'll talk to people who just made partner and they're like, oh, I need to set up LinkedIn. And I'm like, oh, my God. You know, it is interesting to switch gears and, you know, relying on a law firm to give you all the information that you need so that you're doing all the right things is a challenge.

[00:08:49] Because, you know, you're learning how to do very detailed work where business development and marketing feels peripheral or something that, you know, is going to happen through osmosis. So I think, you know, making sure that you start today is the most important thing. Yeah, that ship isn't going to come in. You got to go out there and find it. You have to make it happen. Right.

[00:09:15] And so one of the things you mentioned that I want to talk about, you talked about strategic relationships. And I want to get into that in terms of identifying internal ones, external ones. But why would strategic relationships, why is that so important to somebody that's looking to build a book? I mean, strategic relationships or relationships, period, are so important to human beings in general.

[00:09:38] So, you know, one of the things that I have to overcome is working with attorneys who say they're bad at business development or they don't like business development. But if they're human beings, then they thrive on relationships. We all do. It's not a matter of personality. And so being thoughtful about who you're building relationships with is really important in making sure that you're thinking about, you know, can I learn from this person?

[00:10:07] Do they align with me from a values standpoint? Do I enjoy this person? And are they, you know, champions of me? So taking into account all of these different things, I think, is important and helpful in figuring out how you want to use your time efficiently. Because at the end of the day, yes, it's going to help you professionally, but it will also help you become a healthier person.

[00:10:35] And being really strong at understanding human beings and building relationships with human beings makes you a better lawyer. It makes you better at the work that you do when you really understand people. So, you know, I think that being thoughtful and strategic about consistently building your network and maintaining your network, that doesn't just happen, especially in today's day and age. That doesn't just happen.

[00:11:05] You have to make it happen and you have to put energy into it. Good, good. So let's start internally in a firm and then we'll go to externally. Who are those people that a partner should really look to build those relationships with? People that would be strategic, valuable relationships internally?

[00:11:23] So I think, you know, if you're looking at growing your practice or your network and your visibility, your book, looking at the people inside of your organization that you can learn or grow from. So somebody that you admire for one reason. I think people sometimes think about mentors as someone who's going to teach me all the things I need to know.

[00:11:47] And the reality is you're going to have people who mentor you in different parts of your life at the same time or at different times in your life where, you know, one thing that they do, you really admire and they're willing to kind of share with you how they did that. So, you know, if you're interested in pro bono, you know, finding an attorney who has made that part of their business development and part of their practice so that you can learn how to leverage that I think is really important.

[00:12:17] So, you know, looking at people who you want to collaborate with is another thing. So, you know, they have a complementary practice to the work that you're doing or they're working with clients that you want to start working with.

[00:12:33] So looking at alignment inside of your organization where, you know, you can provide some kind of value, let them know you're interested and see if there's some way to kind of build a mutually beneficial relationship. And then I also think it's important to look at not just the lawyers inside of your organization. The professional staff can be really helpful in steering opportunities for you.

[00:13:03] So I think making sure, you know, you're really thoughtful about who inside of the organization you can build relationships with that can give you insight into what's happening and where there might be opportunities is another thing to think about. Yeah, I see a lot of partners that they just don't really tap that internal network. And I think that's a great idea. The way you structure that people you can learn from, people you want to collaborate with.

[00:13:28] I'd be willing to bet if there's somebody that built a thriving practice, if you reached out to that person, said, hey, I want to learn from you. Tell me what you did. Let's just get a half hour cup of coffee. I want to pick your brain and find out what did you do to build that? What were the key inflection points? What changed? You know, because everything has a reason why it's successful, which is why people like you exist to teach people these things. So that makes sense. And why do you think some partners or associates, they just don't really try to tap into that internal network?

[00:13:57] What do you think keeps them from doing that? I think there's oftentimes a tendency to lean towards like looking externally when we're talking about business development and marketing, you know, outward facing. So that might be a natural inclination. And firms now are, you know, more spread out. And so you may not know who's in your organization.

[00:14:20] If you haven't had a lot of experience reaching out to people and being, I guess you could say vulnerable. So putting yourself in a position where they may say no. I find this with some of my more junior attorneys that they're a little bit nervous about what the outcome might be. So then they're hesitant. And then so much time goes by. It's almost awkward where I've been at this firm for seven years.

[00:14:50] Won't it be weird if I'm all of a sudden reaching out to this person? And it's the answer is no, it's not weird. And flattery and enthusiasm are so important right now. I so seldom hear from senior partners like, oh, my gosh, this, you know, this person is such a pain because they're always wanting my time to give them advice or any of that.

[00:15:15] So I often hear from them like, oh, the associates don't care and are not interested. And I'm like, that's not true either. So really just leaning into, you know, the flattery piece. So letting someone know like, oh, I'm noticing this about you and your practice and I admire it. And telling them, like, I would love to learn more about you and and trying to bring some value to the conversation beyond, you know, what can you do for me?

[00:15:44] But looking at like, what is something you can do for them right now in their practice? I find that that is always very well received and creates a lot of value for the person asking. Absolutely right. And I think that that's an area, just like you said, it's really untapped in a lot of ways. I think some partners, when they come into a firm, because I've seen a lot of integration plans and a lot of them are really good where they go through, introduce you to these people, et cetera, et cetera. And it goes on for so many months and then there's nothing.

[00:16:14] I think if people think, just like you said, Lana, your internal network, who are those strategic relationships internally among associates and staff? And I bet the staff one, they might not have thought about that. Whoever the pricing specialist is, even the conflicts people, they can learn a lot from that, right? You know, I think that there's just no end to what people can learn in anything, especially business development.

[00:16:39] And if they just said, here's my plan, and probably about 30% of that is going to be internally and know, like, and trust. You know, like, and trust. They all know, like, and trust you because you're on their team. You've got pretty good odds of getting something cooking internally because you're on their team. You wear the same jersey as they do on the team. So let me ask you about external relationships. Who do you think those strategic relationships are externally that attorneys should think about in terms of developing their book of business and their network?

[00:17:09] Yeah, so the way that I work with clients is usually start with how do you want to be known in the marketplace and what work are you trying to attract? And so getting super clear on, like, what clients are those? So coming up with a list of potential clients, current clients, and then being clear on who has the greatest opportunity to refer this kind of work to you or to hire you for this kind of work. So it's very practice specific.

[00:17:38] And I also want them to think about, you know, their own personal preferences. So, you know, there's lots of ways to get into an organization and get hired for work. What is the way that aligns most with you and the way you like to work with people? You know, is it going through the C-level suite? So, you know, you're more entrepreneurial. You may be more working with executives. Or is it within house counsel?

[00:18:09] Or it could be lots of other things because there's lots of practices. But being really thoughtful about, you know, what is my best entry into this? Is it working with financial professionals? So do I really need to get involved in the CPA community and be known as the go-to person or people working with this category of clients?

[00:18:32] So that's, you know, a kind of a framework around where do we need to raise visibility and what relationships are most likely to result in business? And, you know, it's usual that you're that's going to kind of set the trajectory for you, no matter if you're going to stay at your firm, you're going to another firm or you're going in-house. So those are the relationships that are going to stay with you long term.

[00:18:56] I think kind of what it boils down to is making sure it's in alignment with who you are and where you like to spend your time. Because at the end of the day, these have to be genuine relationships, friendships. So it's it can't just be strategic. It has to also align with who you are. That's great. And so how do you think we should reach out if it's somebody that we kind of know in terms of building our network? Should we just start with small talk or get right to the point?

[00:19:26] What do you suggest? So you should do a little research. I think, you know, asking people to pick their brains is like the worst thing ever. Or really letting someone know why you're interested in meeting and letting them know that you've already done some research into why this would be mutually beneficial. I think, you know, flattery again is always going to go really far, letting people know that you appreciate and admire something about them.

[00:19:53] And then, you know, making the ask, making it easy, depending on who it is and how you can connect to kind of start the relationship. That's great. I know that we've really kind of just scratched the surface of all this, but we're running out of time here. And I'd love to have you back on the show to talk about other things related to client development. So I know you've got a wealth of knowledge.

[00:20:14] But if we could kind of summarize this in three action steps for people to really get started getting into business development so they have better options, what do you think those three action steps would be? So I'm a person who really wants people to get to moving and actually having some kind of engagement. So even though I'm big on strategy and, you know, clarity, I think action, like you're saying, gets you much further.

[00:20:43] So I would suggest that you plan to reconnect with one person this week. So that can be a former client, a colleague, a peer, somebody that already knows you and share, you know, let them know that you want to touch base and hear what's going on with them. Share with them what's going on with you, kind of what you're focused on. Offer some kind of value, express some appreciation.

[00:21:10] Relationships are a long game, so you're really going to have to invest in them. So the second thing would be make an effort to illustrate your expertise in a visible way. So that could be updating your LinkedIn headline or publishing a recent win or an insight. So doing one thing this week that really highlights your expertise.

[00:21:34] And then I would say number three is to choose an opportunity to stretch yourself. So say yes to something that aligns with your long-term goals, even if it makes you a little uncomfortable. So that could be writing something, joining a pitch meeting, or maybe even like mentoring a junior associate. That's great. Those are great ideas. And I think, as you know, when people take action, it builds confidence. Don't wait. Start this week. Step number one, like you said.

[00:22:04] Take action. It builds that muscle strength. And it's going to be easier the more you do it, right? Exactly. Well, Lana, tell us about your offerings. What do you have? What do you do that you'd like our listeners to know about? So I work with lawyers and law firms on marketing and business development.

[00:22:20] Most of the time, I'm working with attorneys on training and one-on-one coaching to help them identify exactly where they want to take their practice and then how to execute that and really build something that's fulfilling for them. So training and coaching on business development and marketing is really how I spend most of my days. That's great. Well, we're going to put all of your contact information on the show notes.

[00:22:47] So everybody listening, go to the show notes where you hear this podcast and you'll be able to connect with Lana directly. Lana, thanks for being here on the show. And I'd love to have you back on as a guest in the future. Thanks so much, Scott. This has been a pleasure. Thank you for listening to The Rainmaking Podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com.

[00:23:16] To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.