TRP 229: Getting Results from Training with Bob Silvy

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high-stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love.

[00:00:23] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thanks for joining me on the show. I'm excited about our episode today. If you're a leader of an organization, whether it's a big organization or a small one, or you've got a team within an organization, this is something that's going to help you get better results when you implement training.

[00:00:42] Our topic for today is Getting Results from Training, and our guest is Bob Silvy. Bob is a consultant and trainer focusing in professional services organizations, mostly law firms and accounting firms, and areas of client development. He's got some great ideas that he can share with you about how to get better results when you implement training in your organization. Make sure you visit the show notes to connect with Bob directly.

[00:01:08] And as always, this podcast is sponsored by Leopard Solutions, Legal Intelligence Suite of Products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. And now here's my conversation with my friend, Bob Silvy. Thanks for listening. Hey, this is Scott Love with The Rainmaking Podcast. Our guest today is Bob Silvy, and we're talking about getting results from training. Bob, thanks for joining me on the show today.

[00:01:36] It is a pleasure to be back in front of you, Scott Love. This is great, Bob. And it's great having you on the show. And I like the topic title, Getting Results from Training. And I know to the people that are listening, you've been through training seminars, you've given them to your team, and the only thing that counts is the result that happens after that.

[00:01:57] So let me ask you this question, Bob. What are those executives, managers, owners, what can they do to really increase the odds of getting the results that they want when they have their people go through training classes? Well, the first thing is you have to have an expectation of getting results. And I think in many cases, they're just happy to put on a training for their people. That's not a good justification.

[00:02:22] I went through a lot of training with the Gallup organization, and one of the things they talk about is what gets measured gets done. So I think that's a philosophy you have to have when you do training. I mean, training comes down. I mean, first off, a one-off training is really never going to produce results. It takes time. It takes reinforcement. It takes coaching for things to stick.

[00:02:47] And so I think it's really important that individuals think about the value of having goals to go out and have a preliminary, you know, upfront. This is where we are in terms of our abilities, skill set of our professionals. And then after the training is to measure it over the long term. And this isn't like a week later or a month later.

[00:03:12] It could take months before you really start seeing substantial improvement among your professionals. But it's a different mindset. And I think a lot of people overlook these types of things. And I think a critical thing to remember is not doing a one and done. Training just does not work that way. Right, right. And one thing I've seen, and I know you've seen it within the legal industry, is that you have a partner.

[00:03:38] And I believe, and I know you do as well, the correct client-facing persona of a partner is I have all the answers. I know everything. I can solve your problem. What I've seen is that that same persona permeates into other areas of their business life. I know everything. I know how to do client development. I don't need any more training.

[00:03:53] How do you think an executive or leader of a professional services organization, how do you think they should roll out a training initiative to those people within their group that are pretty smart, but they don't know everything about client development or other things? How do you think they should nuance that when they roll something like this out? Well, one of the very first things is that leadership of the firm has to say that they have embraced training.

[00:04:19] And often that doesn't happen. And that also means that they are prepared to make it a priority with all the professionals. It's not the one and done thing. They are investing in the professional development of their talent. I think another way that they show results here is that they go through the training themselves. The key here is, is that you want to go and get leadership to go through the training program.

[00:04:49] Then you want to have them talking about it through town halls and in, you know, communication about company results. They also need to go there and appoint somebody that's highly respected within the organization to be really the face of it, to be the leader, to be the cheerleader in that. You know, all I can tell you is, is that in any organization, some people are going to buy into this type of stuff up front. Some are going to take a while to get it. Some will never get on board.

[00:05:19] But I think, you know, the key is, is that it starts with the message that comes from the top. And when that is done effectively, I think the buy-in just naturally increases. Again, it doesn't go universally. There's still going to be some people who are going to push back. You're going to have the rainmaker people who are going to say, I already got it figured out. And you know what? That's great. I want to get the people that need it and are hungry for it and are willing to put the best effort behind it.

[00:05:49] These are really great ideas. I really love that. I think that's creative. Have the leadership go through the training also. That's great. So let's say that an executive or a managing partner, whoever it is, they've got an initiative coming up. So they're hiring someone to do this type of training. And they've got – and what I would do if I were King, I would appoint somebody who is a charismatic leader that has built political capital in the organization, who is a key member of, let's say, the executive committee but also heads of practice.

[00:06:19] And everybody knows and likes that person. Have that person to be the cheerleader like you talked about, to be that advocate. So I think that's a really good idea. So let's say they're ready to go for it. Where do you think that executive should start when they have the expectation of getting results? Where should they go from here at this point, Bob? And are we talking about them selecting or interviewing firms to bring in to support them? Or are they talking about them doing the training on their own?

[00:06:47] Well, that's interesting. I never thought of it like that. So let me kind of pause this question and ask you another one. Should organizations do training internally or should they hire outside consultants and trainers? And if so, what should they look for if they decide to do that? Well, you know, there's some interesting articles written about that very topic. And, you know, there are many people who believe that bringing in outside experts is the best way to handle it.

[00:07:15] But conversely, though, you could go there and say having somebody within the organization and knows the people, knows the culture and all of that gives them a head, you know, a head jump on their ability to win over the crowd. You know, really what I think it gets down to is you want to look at regardless which of those two sources is going to be or you're going to get the training expertise from. Do they have the ability?

[00:07:41] Have they demonstrated experience in terms of developing training, producing results from it, being able to show you how they did it? And if you get somebody in-house who can go do that, I think it's fabulous. But I think typically, typically the people in-house who are doing training right now in business development are typically marketing people. Marketing people who have never sold anything.

[00:08:08] And so I don't think they necessarily have the skill set to be the effective counselor and consultant and coach that these professionals need. Yeah, I think you're right. And that's my perspective also in seeing a lot of people like that that are really good at marketing, but the client development, the one-on-one, you know, one-to-many is one thing, one-to-one is different. And earning that trust, having those conversations, going out on those pitch meetings, really selling their opportunity, selling their firm to their prospects.

[00:08:37] That's a whole different thing. You know, what's interesting in the accounting industry, there's one firm, Moss Adams, that has basically built a sales organization to work with their professionals. And these people have sales backgrounds, okay? So they're wired differently than the traditional business development person. And I think, again, what's really critical here is to have somebody who's going to be effective in training. They need to have carried a bag.

[00:09:06] They need to have that real-world experience about being in front of difficult clients or having a difficult salesperson to work with. That's great. That's really good insights. So let's say that someone has found their consultant or their trainer or their company they're working with, and they're going forward. And they've got their internal advocate that's going to be a champion. And let's say 75% to 80% of the people that are going through it, they are excited about this. And you got that 20%, 25%, I know everything. I'm just going for the free coffee and donuts.

[00:09:36] And everybody else, the majority, they're eager to go forward. And they launched the initiative. What should be the narrative that the leaders are giving to that team about this training as they go forward? Well, I would hope that an organization that has made a commitment to training has also made a commitment to growing their business.

[00:09:55] And they have also stated that one of the ways that we're going to grow the business is by investing in you, individuals, to give you a skill set to make you more effective, more powerful, more competitive in the marketplace. And I think, you know, again, it's a messaging thing. It's positioning. It's setting the bar high to what the training investment can do. But I think it's also fair to say, again, you're not going to get everyone on board.

[00:10:23] And personally, for those people that don't want to participate, I'd set it aside. I would say, you know what? You've chosen not to participate in this. But we're going to be looking at your results in terms of what you've done in business development. We're going to be comparing those against those who have gone through the training to go there and see whether you made the right decision. And we're going to let you think about that when you weigh the results. And I think that's one way to address it.

[00:10:50] But I think the idea of trying to rubber stamp it against everybody often can be just immensely frustrating for them and also for the trainer in terms of trying to push that rock up the hill. I get that. So what are some of the pitfalls, danger areas, mistakes that executives have made as they roll out this type of initiative? What are some of the ones that you've seen, Bob?

[00:11:17] Well, first off, they don't take a long enough runway for the training to be able to work. They think that you go out and do a couple sessions and things are going to take off. I think the only way that the training is going to effectively happen is to have coaching mirroring the training portion. And, you know, what's important is that coaching is not training. Coaching is basically looking at what's preventing an individual.

[00:11:47] And it's very customized to that individual. What prevents them from getting greater results from what they've already been trained on? Right. And I think that you have to have those two parts. So, again, you can't just bring in the outside trainer and go and have a big class and think that that's going to go do it. I think then you have to bring in the coach. And that could be the trainer. But they have to put a different hat on.

[00:12:10] And that individual is going to work one-on-one with all those professionals to help them make the training stick. To me, that's one of the end-all issues that you have with training is getting it to stick and become a part of people. Maybe they're not going to, you know, take it in 100 percent. But you want them to get enough out of it that they can start seeing the results from it. And I think that's the coaching piece. I also think that, you know, again, you've got to be reporting results.

[00:12:39] You've got to be measuring things, you know, during this entire period before, after the training, and then literally for months following. Because that's the way you build the case for those nonbelievers is to go there and show them whatever the goals were that you guys decided up front. Maybe it was increasing the number of referrals that come in.

[00:13:00] If you can document that and build a strong case for it, I think that gets the attention of these professionals who often feel like they know everything. Is that they might go and say, you know what? I would like to get that result too. I'd like to learn more about it. That's great. So let's say the organization is getting results. Tangible, quantifiable, measurable results. And the team is seeing it. What do you think a leader should do? Should they promote that through emails to their group?

[00:13:31] Should they have audio interviews with team members and promote that through the group? What are some things they can do to kind of propagate that message of results? Let's get some excitement going here. What have you seen in the past, Bob? Well, you know, since COVID, it seems like all kinds of firms are doing these virtual town halls. I would think that if, again, if growth is a big part of your 2025 strategy, you would want to go during that program.

[00:13:56] Every one of those sessions, you would have part of it devoted to talking about results that we've gotten from the training. And it might be to go there and interview a top performer in terms of how they had got that success story. I think most organizations put out, you know, some type of monthly recap of company performance. I think in those types of documents, it would be another great way that if you went out there and said, here are the four goals of our company.

[00:14:24] Let's go and look at where we are this month versus last month, what our goals are for the rest of the year. Again, it's just keeping it on the front burner is what leadership really needs to make it something that everyone is aware of is critically important for the company's success. That's great. So, Bob, tell me about organizations you've seen, and you don't have to mention their names, of course, but where they've done it right.

[00:14:50] What would you say were some of the key inflection points of that process where you observed it and you said that's a good thing that they did? Give me some examples of what they've done in that regard. First off, they said that they weren't satisfied with the level of growth that the firm was having. Yeah. That they were prepared to go in and seek a, you know, a higher level of business development success.

[00:15:17] And that firm said that its ability to achieve significantly higher revenue goals was dependent on them growing certain practice groups, onboarding laterals that they had brought into the organization. You know, to me, it's very fundamental building blocks in terms of what it takes to have success with these types of programs.

[00:15:45] I think what they did, though, is that they agreed with my approach that training doesn't work with just a training session, that they were prepared to make a longer-term commitment to it. And I think that what we've seen so far in terms of the buy-in from their staff has been impressive. Now, again, I can't go there and say that that's the way it's going to be in every organization.

[00:16:11] But I think there is fundamentals from that story that you would want to go and see happen with every client you bring in. That's great, Bob. I appreciate you sharing that. And as we bring this to a close, if you wanted to summarize three action steps that someone listening to this can take to really implement the ideas that you've shared, what would those three action steps be? Well, first off, I would hope that they would follow me on LinkedIn because every two weeks I produce a video on a different training topic.

[00:16:40] And it's very actionable, easy-to-apply training advice. So that would be point number one. Okay, great. And we'll put your LinkedIn profile in the show notes also. Exactly. Thank you. And I think a second is thinking about training KPIs. In other words, what are you going to try to measure? And I would tell you that most executives are going to say, well, I'm going to go measure based on how much revenue we bring in. And then we'll calculate the ROI.

[00:17:07] Well, you have to think about it and that the sales cycle in legal or in accounting can be exceptionally long. And so the real question is, what can you measure in the short term that shows you that we're leading up to somewhere in the future those revenue benchmarks and that? So here are the things that I would be measuring if I was a managing partner. I was the chief business development officer.

[00:17:36] I'd be looking at, are the lawyers increasing the number of contacts that they have in their pipeline? To me, that's a very fundamental thing because if you aren't increasing that, the likelihood of growing your book of business is very difficult. I then would look at how many discovery calls get scheduled and get completed because that really shows whether you've done the qualification, the prospecting right. But that really also says in that whether there's the possibility of a fit.

[00:18:04] After that, I would then be measuring how many follow-up appointments occur. And this is where you really are touching base with other decision makers, influencers within the organization that are necessary to get the sale to happen or to get the buy to close. And then the last thing I would look at is just how many pitches or proposals are presented. Those things are all early signs of whether or not the revenue is going to occur down the road.

[00:18:35] My last point is how do you sell it to leadership? And I think, you know, one of the challenges you face is that in many cases, some managing partners are going to look at training and say, I've been through it. I didn't get results from it. I've never liked a trainer. You know, there's a hundred excuses. I think what you're looking for is you're looking for somebody who is at least open to a discussion. And then you need to align it with some strategic goals of the firm themselves in that.

[00:19:02] And so if this is the year for growth of a particular practice group, maybe that's where you're going to tie in the training benefit. I would go out there and start small. I would go in and say, could we do a test case? I would then go and get a small group of really hungry professionals who want to buy in and who want to get behind this thing. And I would then measure where they are up front. I would set goals. I would go there, do the training. I would track it over time.

[00:19:32] I mean, ultimately what you want to do is you want to be able to show how much their results improved, you know, in like a six-month period of time. I would then present that to leadership to get them to consider, should we expand it out to more? I don't necessarily think you're going to go there and go from 10 people to 100 people. But you want to be able to continue to build it and increase the amount of success stories you have. That's great, Bob. That's a really comprehensive overview.

[00:20:00] I think what you just shared in the last three minutes is a really good summary that people can take to really get started implementing these ideas. So thank you for that. And tell us about your offerings, your services. What is it that you do that you have that you'd like our listeners to know about? And we'll be happy to put not just your LinkedIn profile on there on the show notes, but other links as well. Well, I appreciate that. You know, I think that the point I've tried to make throughout this conversation is the importance of the focus on results.

[00:20:29] And if you're looking for a training organization that most likely has a different approach to how they do training and the emphasis that they place on measurable results, you know, I'm never going to sit here and guarantee results because it's a two-part, you know, equation here. You've got the professional who has to embrace the training, learn from the training, implement the training, but you also have the professional.

[00:20:56] And I could just say from my perspective, I'm going to give, you know, 150% to that professional to do whatever is possible or needed to help them be more successful in using what they have learned. And I think, you know, the ability to be both that trainer and that coach is another thing that really differentiates me. Yeah, that's great. I really like your expertise, Bob. I know you can help a lot of people out that are listening to this podcast.

[00:21:21] And so everybody listening, I'd encourage you to connect with Bob, visit his LinkedIn profile so you can follow and watch his videos every other week. And Bob, thank you for the generosity of your wisdom and for sharing this really great advice. And I'd love to have you back on the show here in a few months again. Thanks so much for being with us today. I look forward to it. Thanks so much, Scott. Thank you for listening to The Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:21:47] For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com. To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.