TRP 228: Content is King - A Thought Leader’s Playbook with Stephanie Grober

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high-stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love.

[00:00:23] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thank you for joining me on the show. In my work as a legal recruiter, I talk to law firm partners every day. Sometimes I'll come across people that have a problem, and the problem is this. They don't have a large book of business, meaning they don't have a large client base. And they don't know what to do. They're so busy. Where should they start? What should they do?

[00:00:44] The problem is that they are not known as an expert within their specialized area. The solution is to create content. But why should you do that? Where should you start? How can you do it? Well, we're going to answer those questions and more and give you ideas to solve that problem with our guest today, Stephanie Grober. Our topic title is Content is King – A Thought Leaders Playbook.

[00:01:08] Now, Stephanie is the Marketing and Public Relations Director at Horowitz Agency, which is an integrated marketing and PR agency with offices in LA, New York, and Vancouver. And her team works with law firm clients ranging from big law to boutiques, designing and executing content and communication strategies that generate bottom-line growth in measurable ways.

[00:01:33] Stephanie, prior to working with Horowitz Agency, when she joined them in 2021, she also served as a marketing and communications manager for a top 50 accounting firm in New York City.

[00:01:44] So she's got the credentials, and she's going to share some great insights today.

[00:01:48] As always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions, Legal Intelligence Suite of Products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard.

[00:01:58] Thanks for listening. I hope you get some great ideas from Stephanie and enjoy this conversation. I know it's going to give you some really good results and solve that problem.

[00:02:08] Hey, this is Scott Love with Rainmaking Podcast. Our special guest today is Stephanie Grober, and we're talking about Content is King – A Thought Leaders Playbook.

[00:02:18] Stephanie, thanks for joining me on the show.

[00:02:21] Thank you very much for having me, Scott. I am very excited to be here.

[00:02:23] Absolutely right. And so content is king. That's front and center what we're talking about today.

[00:02:29] Let me get some working definitions. When we talk about thought leadership and content, what does that mean exactly?

[00:02:36] What are some examples of this, Stephanie?

[00:02:39] So content is going to be a big part of any marketing initiatives, your overall marketing picture.

[00:02:45] When we're talking about content, we're talking about everything from presentations that you might give to articles, client alerts you might publish.

[00:02:54] Maybe you're speaking on podcasts. You might be active on social media.

[00:02:58] There could be awards that you're receiving, or you could be even quoted in the media. That's content, too.

[00:03:03] Yeah, that's great. I mean, so you're out there, you're visible. People know who you are.

[00:03:07] So I like what you mentioned in some of the notes that you shared with me about being a thought leader means being part of the conversation.

[00:03:16] What does that mean exactly?

[00:03:18] Yes, content is a big part of thought leadership.

[00:03:21] So when we say thought leader, which really is probably an overused term at this point, most of us know what a thought leader is.

[00:03:28] But a thought leader is someone who's out there, out in front of the conversation, whether they're getting media opportunities, whether they're on air, on networks, on radio, in print.

[00:03:39] They are helping to guide the conversation around some of the biggest issues today.

[00:03:44] And so those issues could be breaking news.

[00:03:46] They could be new legislation.

[00:03:48] They could be tax code changes.

[00:03:51] Those are all examples of places we see thought leaders propelled to the front for what they're going to add to the conversation.

[00:03:58] So let me kind of give us some structure here to the people that might be listening.

[00:04:02] Let's say that we have somebody that's in a firm and they've got a marketing department that has all those things that they work on.

[00:04:10] And then we also have people that don't have that.

[00:04:13] Let's talk about the first group of people.

[00:04:14] What should they be doing with their marketing department?

[00:04:17] What should they be going to them with ideas on?

[00:04:20] What should they be looking for to kind of build this thought leadership?

[00:04:23] So if you're somebody who has been practicing for quite a while in your career, right, you're maybe 10 years in or so.

[00:04:30] Chances are you've maybe published some articles.

[00:04:32] You've given some presentations.

[00:04:34] Those are all topics that you are likely able to be a thought leader on, right?

[00:04:39] And generally, they're ongoing topics.

[00:04:41] The laws will evolve.

[00:04:42] They may change or they may become very important at a certain time.

[00:04:46] So those are great areas to say, hey, I'd like to be out in front of the conversation.

[00:04:51] Maybe you could pitch me to the media as things develop.

[00:04:55] There are often time sensitive reasons to pitch to the media, right?

[00:04:58] If there's a deadline, mid-year, end of year, things that your clients have to know about.

[00:05:03] So you would go to your marketing team and say, you know what, how do we proactively approach this?

[00:05:08] What sort of opportunities could I get to speak about this topic more at length?

[00:05:13] Maybe you've published five articles on a topic, but you've never spoken.

[00:05:19] So there's a great opportunity to say, hey, I've been widely published on this topic and I'd love the opportunity to speak at your conference or your event about this topic.

[00:05:30] And then that just leads to another sort of opportunity for you.

[00:05:33] If you've been published and you've spoken, then say, you know, there's certain reporters.

[00:05:38] Reporters are always on a beat when you're talking about PR, public relations, being quoted in the press.

[00:05:43] There might be certain reporters who are covering a certain topic.

[00:05:46] And your marketing team or yourself can make introductions to those reporters and say, hey, I'd love to be a source for you anytime you're covering this.

[00:05:55] That's great. And so what should we do in terms of where we get ideas if we just don't know where to start?

[00:06:01] What's a good place that we should start to look for these ideas for thought leadership?

[00:06:05] Yeah. So some people say, well, I'm really a generalist.

[00:06:08] I don't know what I'd like to talk about or be quoted on or write about.

[00:06:13] First place to start is your book of business.

[00:06:15] What are you doing for clients? Right.

[00:06:17] The work that you're doing could inform the things that you are able to speak about.

[00:06:21] Certainly. I like to encourage people to think about their clients' pain points.

[00:06:25] What are problems that your clients have that you're helping solve?

[00:06:29] Write about those because your clients are going to want to read that kind of advice.

[00:06:34] OK, so that's always a great place when it comes to public relations and PR.

[00:06:39] You know, we have some folks who are like, I'm just not sure what I can comment on.

[00:06:43] And I like to encourage them. Let's let's try commenting on a few different things.

[00:06:47] You don't have to be the foremost expert on a topic to just give sound bites to the media from a legal perspective.

[00:06:55] A lot of times when we're working with professionals, really all professional services folks,

[00:07:01] they might be hesitant to speak to the press about a certain topic if it's not exactly in their wheelhouse.

[00:07:06] I like to encourage people to be open to opportunities that aren't an exact fit.

[00:07:11] So, you know, it's really about momentum when we're talking marketing, PR, content and thought leadership.

[00:07:17] We want to have things to share with an audience over and over.

[00:07:22] So whether you're sending email newsletters or your firm is promoting on social media,

[00:07:27] whether you're sharing on your own LinkedIn, the idea is to share regular content.

[00:07:32] So the more you are willing to speak about or give quotes to the press or publish a short article on,

[00:07:40] the more you're going to have to share with your audience in terms of content.

[00:07:44] That's what's going to keep you top of mind.

[00:07:47] And that's the goal of marketing, content marketing and thought leadership.

[00:07:51] That's great.

[00:07:51] So it's kind of like you are in front of your prospects when they have a problem and they see that,

[00:07:57] oh, he solved this problem for another company just like us.

[00:08:01] So let's reach out to that person.

[00:08:03] And I've found even with this, even if it's just not to get the call, so to speak,

[00:08:07] the people that you're talking with, they're checking you out.

[00:08:10] They're going to your LinkedIn profile.

[00:08:12] They're reading you.

[00:08:13] I even reach out when I recruit partners.

[00:08:15] I say, we've never spoken before.

[00:08:17] Google me because I know they will.

[00:08:19] And thank goodness, it's mostly good things that show up, not the bad stuff.

[00:08:23] But you want to have that thought leadership that leads back to you so that if someone,

[00:08:29] maybe they're already talking with you, they feel a little bit safer with you.

[00:08:32] That's what I've seen in that regard.

[00:08:35] So what do you think are the things that keep people from actively doing this?

[00:08:40] What have you seen, Stephanie?

[00:08:42] Yeah, so we work every day with the most senior professionals in a firm to their brand new associate

[00:08:49] classes.

[00:08:50] And we give media training all year long.

[00:08:53] We teach people how to speak to the media for PR opportunities.

[00:08:57] We help them find out what's a fit for them.

[00:09:00] A big question for folks is where do I start?

[00:09:02] So I like to be reasonable and I like to say, let's make a plan that makes sense and you can

[00:09:08] stick to.

[00:09:08] If you've never done this before, maybe your goal is to publish one article in the next

[00:09:14] six months to a year.

[00:09:15] Now, an article, depending on the publication that you want to be in, and you should think

[00:09:21] about which publications you'd love to publish an article in.

[00:09:24] Ideally, they'll be the ones that your clients are reading or your prospective clients, right?

[00:09:28] An article needs to only be a thousand words.

[00:09:31] So it's not a huge lift.

[00:09:33] I know as lawyers especially, we're thinking, wow, more writing.

[00:09:38] This is the last thing that I want to do.

[00:09:40] But it's really not a heavy lift to write a one thousand word article.

[00:09:44] So you can always start there.

[00:09:46] You can try speaking opportunities at professional conferences, whether it's an industry conference,

[00:09:54] whether it's a legal conference.

[00:09:55] Those are always great to make connections.

[00:09:57] And you want to make connections with referral sources as well as direct prospects, right?

[00:10:02] I also like to tell people who've never done any sort of marketing or PR, let's get some awards going.

[00:10:09] Let's craft some nominations.

[00:10:11] Let's submit them.

[00:10:13] And let's try to earn those accolades because that's a great way to get going.

[00:10:17] Now, again, we want to share content.

[00:10:20] So when you win an award, your firm is going to share that.

[00:10:23] You're going to share it on your personal LinkedIn.

[00:10:25] Now, if you're winning two awards per year or even one award per year,

[00:10:30] that just gets us started.

[00:10:32] We start building the momentum.

[00:10:34] It's something you can work into your professional bio and share with others.

[00:10:38] So that's a great place to start as well.

[00:10:41] There are awards for every type of professional at every stage of their career.

[00:10:45] So whether you have just gotten started and you're in year one or you are in year 40,

[00:10:51] there are awards for you.

[00:10:52] There are regional awards.

[00:10:54] There are industry awards.

[00:10:55] There are chambers, legal 500, legal industry leading type awards.

[00:11:01] But really, there's an award for everybody.

[00:11:04] That's great.

[00:11:04] What a great idea.

[00:11:06] Do you think we should be looking at what other firms are doing or should we just kind

[00:11:10] of do our own thing and see what works?

[00:11:11] What do you think about that?

[00:11:13] Absolutely.

[00:11:13] You have to know what your competitors are doing.

[00:11:16] We often reverse engineer competitors' marketing strategies, especially if we're exploring

[00:11:22] a new practice area.

[00:11:23] Our agency works with attorneys that cover more than 30 practice areas, but we're always

[00:11:28] learning new areas.

[00:11:31] So seeing what competitors are doing, especially large established firms, is a great place

[00:11:35] to start.

[00:11:36] If you're not quite sure where your clients might be reading or visiting online, or you're

[00:11:43] not quite sure what awards might be out there for you, look and see if your competitors

[00:11:48] have earned any awards, if they've been promoting those things.

[00:11:50] We love when clients send us competitors opportunities and say, wow, I'd love to do something like

[00:11:57] this.

[00:11:57] That gives us a great place to start.

[00:11:59] So I always encourage people to look at what their competitors are doing.

[00:12:02] And then when you're looking at what your competitors are doing, you should be thinking about what

[00:12:07] sets you apart from your competitors.

[00:12:09] So the unique selling points for your practice or your firm that are going to distinguish you

[00:12:15] from those competitors.

[00:12:16] This is solid, Stephanie.

[00:12:18] This is really rock solid.

[00:12:19] I think that let's just say someone said, I like this idea.

[00:12:24] I'm going to start with a white paper or an article on a topic.

[00:12:28] And here's the topic.

[00:12:29] There it is.

[00:12:30] And I'm going to look at this from, okay, what are the problems I'm solving for, let's

[00:12:34] say, three of my best clients?

[00:12:36] Oh, it's the same thing.

[00:12:37] It's this, this, and this.

[00:12:38] I'm going to write a white paper about that.

[00:12:40] I'm going to talk about this is the problem.

[00:12:42] I'm not going to mention their names, of course.

[00:12:44] But I'm going to talk about this is the arc.

[00:12:46] This is the problem they had.

[00:12:48] This is the solution I provided.

[00:12:49] And this is how it benefited them.

[00:12:52] And if you're facing this same problem, I'd recommend these three steps.

[00:12:56] One, two, three.

[00:12:57] And then summarize the ending, referencing back to the story with a nice little byline.

[00:13:03] Maybe one line.

[00:13:04] John Smith as a partner at Smith & Winston International.

[00:13:09] And here's his bio link and his email.

[00:13:11] And that's it, right?

[00:13:12] So that's pretty good.

[00:13:13] We got that so far so good, right?

[00:13:15] Absolutely.

[00:13:16] We can then take that and we might reach out to our trade association about, and what

[00:13:21] do you think we could do with this article with the trade association, Stephanie?

[00:13:25] Yeah.

[00:13:25] So once you have your article, try to turn it into a speaking opportunity or a presentation

[00:13:29] and vice versa.

[00:13:31] Repurposing is huge when we're talking about content marketing.

[00:13:34] We never want something to just be used for one purpose.

[00:13:38] We are always looking to see, okay, you wrote a longer article here.

[00:13:43] Let's maybe see if we can shorten it and put it in a trade magazine.

[00:13:46] Maybe you can do a presentation on it later in the year.

[00:13:49] And then also sharing it with the press.

[00:13:51] And then again, pitching you as an expert to talk about that subject.

[00:13:54] Yeah, that's smart.

[00:13:55] I like that idea, repurposing it.

[00:13:57] I was trying to figure out how to say that, but thank you for giving us that word.

[00:14:00] And I think that's super smart because you have hit on a vein that people are feeling

[00:14:05] some pain and you're the solution to that.

[00:14:07] And like you said, you can get a speaking engagement.

[00:14:10] And if you don't feel comfortable doing that, sit on a panel with you and two other professionals,

[00:14:15] even find two other maybe colleagues in your firm and reach out to that trade association.

[00:14:20] I've got an instant panel, the three of us ready to go for your next conference.

[00:14:24] And what are some other things we could do with that article where we could repopulate

[00:14:29] and repurpose that besides speaking at a conference?

[00:14:32] Certainly using it for social media is a great thing.

[00:14:35] Your own social media.

[00:14:36] Make sure you're sharing the social media from your firm.

[00:14:39] So every opportunity you have is going to grow legs for you and give you multiple ways to

[00:14:44] leverage it across multiple platforms.

[00:14:47] Your firm might share something and tag you.

[00:14:49] You can repost that.

[00:14:50] You can post your own post about a piece that you've done or an opportunity you've had.

[00:14:54] It can be posted to the firm's website or your personal website or your small firm's website as well.

[00:15:01] Like we said, turning it into a speaking engagement, maybe a series of articles later,

[00:15:06] if you pick back up on a certain thread, those are all opportunities.

[00:15:10] That's great.

[00:15:11] Let's say there's a news story that breaks.

[00:15:13] Oh, and it's within my area of expertise.

[00:15:15] Here's an article that a reporter wrote on it with an illegal media publication.

[00:15:20] What would be things that we could do to really get some visibility out of that?

[00:15:25] Yeah.

[00:15:25] So this is where it's great if you have an internal marketing team that's doing a little

[00:15:30] bit of public relations work for you, but you don't have to have that.

[00:15:34] There's a lot of tools these days to help individuals do PR for themselves.

[00:15:38] We, of course, at Horowitz Agency are doing PR 365 days a year.

[00:15:43] So when news breaks, that's when you want to get out front of something and say,

[00:15:47] I could talk about this.

[00:15:48] So if your marketing team has any press contacts, this would be the time for them to check in

[00:15:53] and say, would you like to speak with one of our attorneys or our sources on this matter?

[00:15:58] And then we would direct the media to see your history with that topic.

[00:16:02] Again, the articles you may have written, the speaking engagements you've had just to demonstrate

[00:16:06] your credibility.

[00:16:07] Getting out in front of breaking news really is how thought leaders are made.

[00:16:12] Sometimes overnight, if you're the first one to comment on a topic in the press, depending

[00:16:17] on the outlet, you might find you have five other reporters coming to you because they

[00:16:22] were so impressed with what you said.

[00:16:23] So being ready and able to take those opportunities to move quickly when news is breaking is really

[00:16:31] going to benefit you in the long run.

[00:16:32] That's great.

[00:16:33] Now, one thing you mentioned before, you talked about consistency.

[00:16:37] Somebody's listening to this.

[00:16:38] He or she is super busy.

[00:16:40] They're building a lot of time, but they know they still need to take time to developing

[00:16:44] this thought leadership.

[00:16:45] What have you seen works for busy professionals, whether they have a marketing department or

[00:16:49] they're not, but they don't have one, they're on their own or in a small firm.

[00:16:52] What are some tips that you have in that regard, Stephanie?

[00:16:55] So just like business development, you have to work at it, right?

[00:16:59] We all know that.

[00:17:01] Marketing too.

[00:17:01] It's not one and done.

[00:17:03] It takes consistent effort.

[00:17:05] You have to set some goals for yourself.

[00:17:07] You have to hold yourself to those goals.

[00:17:09] I've been fortunate to work with some of the most impressive rainmakers in a firm, as well

[00:17:14] as the brand new associates, as I've said.

[00:17:17] And what I've learned from that is you have to be consistent and you have to commit.

[00:17:21] So if you're going to commit to marketing, to thought leadership, to PR as a part of your

[00:17:27] business development efforts, be consistent, set goals for yourself of say publishing once

[00:17:34] or twice a year, speaking once or twice a year.

[00:17:38] Maybe this is the year you've decided you'd like to take some media commentary opportunities.

[00:17:43] Just be consistent with it.

[00:17:44] It's not something you can pick up and overnight turn into a talking head in the press.

[00:17:49] You need to keep working at it to get more and more opportunities.

[00:17:53] And it's an area where momentum is built.

[00:17:57] That's when you're going to see the best results.

[00:17:59] Yeah, that's great.

[00:18:00] And that's what I've seen with a lot of people that I've followed where they had an initial

[00:18:04] amount of publicity.

[00:18:06] They're able to leverage that and consistently build something and build that name.

[00:18:11] Tell me about someone that you've seen that when you started working with them, they

[00:18:15] didn't really have much of a name.

[00:18:16] What happened?

[00:18:17] What did they do to really get some visibility?

[00:18:19] And how has that impacted their practice today?

[00:18:23] Yeah, we've had some incredible success stories, some real lightning in a bottle type stories.

[00:18:28] And again, the best way is to start before the big news break.

[00:18:33] So if you think you might want to make public relations, content marketing part of your strategy,

[00:18:38] then take some opportunities.

[00:18:40] Take smaller opportunities.

[00:18:41] Don't, you know, don't think, wow, is this outlet big enough for me?

[00:18:45] Or is anyone going to see this?

[00:18:46] Practice on those opportunities.

[00:18:48] Get your name out there as long as it's a close enough topic for you so you know what

[00:18:53] you're most comfortable with.

[00:18:54] Speak to the media a few times so you're not nervous.

[00:18:58] Publish in various different places.

[00:19:00] Do all the groundwork so that when the big story does break, and I can give you as an example,

[00:19:06] we've worked with estate planning attorneys.

[00:19:09] And in the last year, there's been a lot of celebrity deaths and then questions about

[00:19:13] celebrity estates.

[00:19:14] Those stories are huge.

[00:19:15] They become national news.

[00:19:17] So if you're an estate planning attorney who's been speaking and publishing all along, when

[00:19:22] a reporter needs you to comment on a celebrity estate, they're going to find you probably

[00:19:27] just by Googling celebrity estate attorney.

[00:19:30] That's what we want to have happen.

[00:19:32] That's what I consider to be the lightning in a bottle.

[00:19:34] And I can say a lot of people say, well, I'm not going to get a new client from publishing

[00:19:39] one article.

[00:19:41] That's not impossible.

[00:19:42] First of all, I've had plenty of our clients tell us that they've gotten calls from an article

[00:19:46] that they've published.

[00:19:47] But the more you do it, the more opportunities are going to be there.

[00:19:51] And the more folks are just going to see your name.

[00:19:53] You always have to be top of mind.

[00:19:55] You don't want to be quiet.

[00:19:56] You don't want yourself to become the best kept secret in your industry.

[00:20:00] That's great.

[00:20:01] And you want to build that brand promise that you have the authority, that you are the one

[00:20:04] that can solve the problems.

[00:20:05] People see it.

[00:20:06] And I always think third party credibility, they see what you've said in media, even when

[00:20:11] you've been quoted by the media.

[00:20:13] If the media quotes you, you are a credentialed expert because they chose you.

[00:20:18] Anyways, it's exciting.

[00:20:19] I remember the first time I got a call from the Wall Street Journal.

[00:20:22] She said, I want to interview you about the upcoming bankruptcy crisis during COVID.

[00:20:26] She actually didn't say that.

[00:20:27] She said, I'm calling you from the Wall Street Journal.

[00:20:29] I said, my subscription automatically renews every month.

[00:20:32] Thank you.

[00:20:33] And she said, no, no, no.

[00:20:33] I'm a reporter.

[00:20:34] And sure enough, wow, you get quoted once.

[00:20:37] You can say forever that you're quoted in the Wall Street Journal.

[00:20:39] You just need that one quote.

[00:20:40] And so I found that when people make a serious commitment to being visible, they're going to

[00:20:45] see good things like that happen.

[00:20:47] And so, Stephanie, as we bring this to a close, if you could summarize three action steps,

[00:20:53] people can take these ideas and implement them.

[00:20:56] And let's bring it into three simple action steps.

[00:20:58] What would those be?

[00:20:59] I would say if you're ready to embrace thought leadership, content marketing, first action

[00:21:06] item is to pick one to two to three areas of your practice that you'd like to become a

[00:21:12] thought leader in.

[00:21:13] So know what those are and make a determination.

[00:21:15] That way, you know somewhere that you can focus, whether it's writing, speaking, giving

[00:21:20] comments to the press.

[00:21:21] Right.

[00:21:21] Step two is identify where your clients or prospective clients are accessing information

[00:21:28] about those topic areas, because those are going to be your targets.

[00:21:32] That's where you want to be seen.

[00:21:35] Step three is set a goal of either repurposing an existing piece of content or taking a new

[00:21:41] opportunity related to those topics.

[00:21:44] That's great.

[00:21:45] Simple enough, right?

[00:21:47] It is.

[00:21:47] But it's all about doing it and making it a priority.

[00:21:50] And Stephanie, I'm glad you're here.

[00:21:52] Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

[00:21:53] Before we go, tell us about what you do at the Horowitz Agency.

[00:21:57] What are some things that you want our listeners to know about you and your agency?

[00:22:01] Yeah.

[00:22:02] So I am the marketing and public relations director at Horowitz Agency.

[00:22:06] We are a marketing agency, full service working with law firms, primarily law firms across

[00:22:12] the country and in Canada.

[00:22:14] We work with clients ranging from big law to boutique in size.

[00:22:19] We focus a lot on public relations at our agency.

[00:22:22] We've been amazed at this year's results as far as PR go for our law firm clients and the

[00:22:29] individual lawyers that we work with.

[00:22:31] That's great.

[00:22:32] Well, thank you for being on the show, Stephanie.

[00:22:34] I'd love to have you back on in the future.

[00:22:36] Thank you so much, Scott.

[00:22:37] It was great to be here.

[00:22:42] Thank you for listening to The Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:22:46] For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website

[00:22:52] at attorneysearchgroup.com.

[00:22:55] To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or

[00:23:00] executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.

[00:23:05] Thank you.