TRP 224: Lessons Learned for Winning Business with Mike Mellor

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love.

[00:00:23] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love.

[00:00:27] Did you know that most of your prospective clients, when they're looking for a new service provider, they're 57% of the way through that process of choosing someone.

[00:00:38] And then you come along, what do you do? How do you manage that?

[00:00:40] We're going to talk about that and other lessons learned for Winning Business with our guest expert today, Mike Mellor.

[00:00:48] Mike Mellor is a consultant who thinks like an in-house chief marketing officer because he's done that before.

[00:00:54] He works with small to medium-sized law firms to help them in their business development processes and marketing strategies.

[00:01:01] Mike's got some great tangible ideas that will help you. Even if you're not in the legal industry, if you're in professional services, definitely listen to the show.

[00:01:09] There's going to be some significant insights that can help you that will make a difference. I promise you that.

[00:01:15] As always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions, Legal Intelligence Suite of Products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI.

[00:01:23] Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard.

[00:01:25] Also, remember to check out the show notes for this podcast. Wherever you listen to it, you'll be able to connect with Mike Mellor directly.

[00:01:32] We've got his website and also his LinkedIn information directly.

[00:01:36] And if you have a moment, I'd always appreciate a nice five-star review on Apple Podcasts.

[00:01:42] Thanks for listening, and I hope you get some great ideas from my conversation with Mike Mellor today.

[00:01:49] Hey, this is Scott Love with the Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:01:52] Our special guest today is Mike Mellor, and today we're talking about lessons learned for winning business.

[00:01:58] Mike, thanks for joining me on the Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:02:01] Thanks so much for having me, Scott. Long-time listener, so appreciate it.

[00:02:04] Thank you, and I'm a fan of what you post on social media, which is why I asked you to be on the show,

[00:02:09] because I know you've got some insights that I think can help people.

[00:02:13] One statistic I want to start with is 57%.

[00:02:17] You mentioned to me that recently. Tell me about that.

[00:02:20] Why is that a significant number in terms of what we're talking about today?

[00:02:25] Yes, appreciate it. Yeah, it's a recent Gartner study, the consultancy, who noted that B2B buyers,

[00:02:32] including law firm buyers, are 57% of the way through the buying cycle.

[00:02:35] You're going to be able to significantly change sales cycle than 15 years ago, the last generation of lawyers.

[00:02:41] And so making sure that your online presence is literally your reflection, right?

[00:02:46] It's your front lawn, and so you've got to make sure you're mowing it and keeping it all up to speed there.

[00:02:52] So frequently just trying to build processes and systems that can help attorneys to either automate that process or otherwise streamline it,

[00:03:00] just to increase realization rates and just make happier folks all around.

[00:03:04] Right. I mean, that's a lot. That's a whole thing, right?

[00:03:07] And so what you mentioned, that 50% of the online buyers, or excuse me, they're 57% of the way through the buying process.

[00:03:17] That means they're pretty much close to making a decision.

[00:03:19] And they come across a professional services firm online, and that firm needs to insert themselves at that part of the buying process.

[00:03:29] What do you think potential clients for professional services, what are they looking for when they see content, when they see things online?

[00:03:37] What do you think, from their perspective, is important to them?

[00:03:40] Yeah. Well, they want to know you've done it before.

[00:03:42] I mean, experience really wins the day.

[00:03:44] And, you know, in a lot of firms that I see, there's not a really centralized way of organizing that, distributing that in the right places in the buyer journey,

[00:03:52] whether that's through a brochure or, you know, a follow-up or, you know, being prepped for an upcoming meeting.

[00:03:58] Or, you know, but folks go in, you know, another joke I kind of have is that a restaurateur doesn't care that,

[00:04:04] Scott, you form the company and I do the ADA work, right?

[00:04:07] They want to go back to cooking.

[00:04:09] And so, at the end of the day, are we thinking about how they're coming in and how they're thinking about it?

[00:04:14] So, you know, I think a lot of folks, you know, try to be the jack of all trades with industry knowledge.

[00:04:19] And I think they end up being the master of none there.

[00:04:22] It's just physically, intellectually impossible to be an expert in every industry in the world.

[00:04:27] So, you know, the riches are in the niches.

[00:04:29] And so, getting people to just be a little more focused there at that cycle because, you know, you're out of the game before you know you're in it.

[00:04:36] You might get five or six, you know, folks or names and you're going to research them online.

[00:04:41] And you might find two or three folks, oh my gosh, I'm a Sprinklr company.

[00:04:45] This person has done a $20 million acquisition, $100 million acquisition, a funding round, you know,

[00:04:51] and people who just put laundry lists of, hey, I did a bunch of 144As,

[00:04:55] I did a bunch of these and a bunch of these for every industry in the world.

[00:04:58] So, who's going to get their phone call?

[00:04:59] So, I mean, just a lot of that focus.

[00:05:01] So, let me take three things that you just talked about here just now.

[00:05:05] The first one, and these are the three things I wanted to kind of go down.

[00:05:08] You talked about experience wins the day.

[00:05:10] You even mentioned something called the buyer's journey, which I think we should talk about

[00:05:14] and also kind of developing that niched expertise.

[00:05:17] But talk first about experience wins the day.

[00:05:20] I kind of have an idea what that means, but how can we as professional service providers

[00:05:26] take our experience to showcase it to prospects that are looking for people like us?

[00:05:30] Tell me about that for a little bit.

[00:05:32] Sure.

[00:05:32] It's really about, you know, figuring out a centralized process, right?

[00:05:36] Is that going to be tied to your financials?

[00:05:38] Is it tied to your intake process?

[00:05:39] You're getting some data at that goalpost, right?

[00:05:42] Everyone needs to open a new matter.

[00:05:43] Everyone also needs to build a matter.

[00:05:45] So, are you taking those kind of, you know, steps and the information that's going to be

[00:05:50] required, that's going to be input that's being sent around, you know, outside to the

[00:05:54] client?

[00:05:55] Are you bringing that into marketing so that we can sort of sort and organize that?

[00:05:59] You know, we never know how a data or a pitch is going to come up.

[00:06:02] A request is going to come in.

[00:06:04] It might be, hey, listen, I want all of the big M&A deals.

[00:06:08] What have we done around the firm in the last two years that were over 500 million and,

[00:06:11] you know, had a PE element.

[00:06:12] And four seconds later, you might get a phone call that says, hey, what have we done in

[00:06:16] the life sciences space sort of across the transactional and litigation?

[00:06:21] And so, you don't really know how these things are there.

[00:06:24] So, you've got to develop an experience management system.

[00:06:26] There's a bunch of great off-the-shelf ones, but, you know, I'm focused, you know, really

[00:06:30] on the smaller and mid-sized firms who may not have the resources for a foundation or

[00:06:33] an NTAP or one of these, you know, sort of monster enterprise systems.

[00:06:37] So, you know, you can build something in Excel that says, hey, you know, here's the parties

[00:06:41] involved.

[00:06:41] Here's the date.

[00:06:42] Here's the lead partner.

[00:06:44] Here's the value.

[00:06:45] You know, kind of create a list of lists.

[00:06:46] I know that this is a fashion deal.

[00:06:48] It's trademark prosecution.

[00:06:50] It involved an M&A component.

[00:06:52] We've got licensing over here.

[00:06:53] And being able to sort of code those things so that, you know, you get a phone call and

[00:06:57] you're able to, you know, in a couple of minutes say, hey, you know what?

[00:06:59] Here's our Asia-based PE sponsor M&A deals.

[00:07:03] You know, and you don't think you need it until you do.

[00:07:05] And having that, you know, seven or eight deals that, you know, the firm has done and being

[00:07:09] able to speak to them intelligently, knowing who you can follow up with and having a system

[00:07:13] for that, that's going to improve your win rate significantly.

[00:07:17] Yeah, absolutely right.

[00:07:18] So this is interesting.

[00:07:19] I mean, a couple of things that you said, sometimes you're out of the, you don't find out you're

[00:07:22] out of the game and you never were in it before and you don't need it until you do.

[00:07:26] So an experience management system, what is that exactly?

[00:07:30] Sure.

[00:07:31] So, you know, they can come in different forms, but, you know, if you thought about a financial

[00:07:36] system, an Adderant or something like that, almost having a field in there that said,

[00:07:40] hey, you know, this is a, this particular, you know, the client name, you have that no matter

[00:07:45] number.

[00:07:45] Okay.

[00:07:45] We might have a general one, but no matter two might be a corporate deal.

[00:07:49] Okay.

[00:07:49] What does that, what is that exact?

[00:07:51] What does that mean?

[00:07:52] So having a description of that matter, typically that can be embedded into that financial services

[00:07:56] so that you can sort of code and understand hours and understand budget and all those types

[00:08:01] of things.

[00:08:02] That's perfect.

[00:08:03] But if you, if you don't have that, you know, even moving into an Excel doc, go, go

[00:08:07] back into every pitch you've ever done, every submission you've ever done, integrate all

[00:08:11] of that into sort of a central system, code, all that kind of create a consistent template

[00:08:17] for how those things are written and making sure that, you know, those are then consistent

[00:08:21] and all the partner bios and all your go-to-market pages on your issue pages, your industry pages

[00:08:27] so that folks, you're making it easy for them to say, hey, you know what?

[00:08:30] This firm has been there doing exactly what I've, you know, exactly the problem I'm trying

[00:08:35] to solve in the industry.

[00:08:36] I'm trying to solve it.

[00:08:37] So let's just say there is a small to midsize firm that's doing this and they're going

[00:08:41] through their data.

[00:08:42] Where have they pitched?

[00:08:44] Where have they won?

[00:08:44] Where have they lost?

[00:08:45] Who did they lose to?

[00:08:46] I assume that's something they should look at too, if they can find that out.

[00:08:49] How can that data be used to direct the focus of their niche development?

[00:08:54] Kind of talking about that other thing that you mentioned.

[00:08:56] Yeah.

[00:08:57] You know, I tell, you know, before anyone sits down to write a plan, I always say, you

[00:09:00] know, look backwards to look forwards, right?

[00:09:03] Go back into what are the cases you've worked on over the past two, three, five years, right?

[00:09:10] You integrate them and, you know, you may say, hey, you know what?

[00:09:12] I really focus on financial services.

[00:09:14] Well, you look back, you've done a bunch of different things.

[00:09:16] And, you know, you might find some sort of trends that are bubbling up.

[00:09:21] Hey, you know what?

[00:09:21] I didn't think about it this way.

[00:09:23] But if I'm not thinking about it by litigation topic, but instead by industry, I actually work

[00:09:27] a lot with financial services firms, whatever the case is, right?

[00:09:31] And that could really help to inform your strategy and to go forward, you know, to sort

[00:09:35] of look back.

[00:09:36] Hey, it also sort of spawns your memory there.

[00:09:39] What did you really like about working with that client?

[00:09:40] What did you not like?

[00:09:46] 30%, and maybe it's a real estate attorney who's doing 30% acquisition work, 30% leasing

[00:09:50] work.

[00:09:50] Okay.

[00:09:50] What does your utopia look like?

[00:09:52] Oh, it would be perfect if I could, you know, just work on, you know, retail landlord

[00:09:57] side leases.

[00:09:58] Okay.

[00:09:59] Well, everything you do should now be reflective of that.

[00:10:02] Right.

[00:10:02] I think that, you know, we talked earlier about you being, you know, intimately embedded

[00:10:06] with, you know, the partners you work with and their plans.

[00:10:09] Right.

[00:10:09] Yeah.

[00:10:10] Right.

[00:10:10] Yeah.

[00:10:10] Being able to sort of harness that, I think is great.

[00:10:14] That's great.

[00:10:14] So tell me this then, what is the buyer's journey?

[00:10:18] You talked about the buyer's journey.

[00:10:20] I've heard that phrase before, but how would you define that?

[00:10:22] What's a working definition for us on that?

[00:10:23] Sure.

[00:10:24] Sure.

[00:10:24] You know, I'm always thinking about, you know, how do clients interact with your firm?

[00:10:28] Right.

[00:10:29] You know, you may notice, you know, and again, you've got to kind of code these clients by

[00:10:33] industry, by practice, but, you know, understanding how do they come into the firm first?

[00:10:39] You know, they may come in, do a little bit of trademark work.

[00:10:42] And, you know, we're noticing that, you know, our fashion clients typically come in through

[00:10:45] that and maybe they're doing the funding after that.

[00:10:47] Maybe it's an M&A, you know, potential shareholder litigation or whatever, you know, those types

[00:10:51] of journeys are that can, you know, help you to really understand sort of the timing.

[00:10:55] Hey, you know what?

[00:10:55] Six months after we do an M&A, typically there's a litigation event.

[00:10:59] Okay, great.

[00:11:00] Well, you know, can we start to deliver just-in-time content there, you know, kind of based off

[00:11:04] what we're seeing in terms of those cycles of those clients?

[00:11:07] You know, secondarily, you know, you think about sort of correlation analysis, right?

[00:11:12] Noticing that 70% of our fashion clients who do X also do Y.

[00:11:17] Well, you know, that can help to inform some of your strategies as well.

[00:11:20] That's interesting.

[00:11:21] Hey, you know what?

[00:11:21] We work with Polo and they do this and this, but now this other company, they're not doing

[00:11:27] that.

[00:11:27] Why is that?

[00:11:28] Have we not introduced them?

[00:11:29] Did we miss a step along the way?

[00:11:31] Are they elsewhere?

[00:11:32] You know, let's just kind of, you know, should be giving you those different flags to kind of,

[00:11:36] you know, probe a little more.

[00:11:37] So with this correlation analysis, I've never heard that before.

[00:11:40] I kind of have an idea of what that means.

[00:11:43] Tell me a time where you worked with a firm and you did that correlation analysis.

[00:11:47] What were the variables that you looked at and how did that help them win more business?

[00:11:52] Sure.

[00:11:52] Well, just taking a quick step back that, you know, I like to refer to data in three I's.

[00:11:57] You've got industry data and that's, you know, looking at B law saying, hey, you know

[00:12:01] what, what are the trends we're seeing energy transition in Texas?

[00:12:05] That's coming big.

[00:12:06] You know, the Boston market's getting big with healthcare.

[00:12:09] That's those types of examples of industry analysis.

[00:12:12] You have individual analysis.

[00:12:13] I'll call that.

[00:12:14] And that's, you know, folks going on your site.

[00:12:16] What do they do?

[00:12:17] They go to the real estate litigation piece.

[00:12:19] They might download something.

[00:12:20] Do they forward that?

[00:12:22] What are they, what is Jenny Smith doing?

[00:12:24] And, you know, and kind of interacting with our email marketing campaigns, things like

[00:12:27] that.

[00:12:28] And then the third one where we're talking about this correlation analysis is the internal

[00:12:31] data.

[00:12:32] So that's, you know, understanding, you know, hey, when, you know, our T and E folks are

[00:12:37] opening a matter, what's the kind of secondary, you know, sort of affiliated practice area that

[00:12:43] might come up, you know, and we might be surprised.

[00:12:45] We actually found out that that was bankruptcy with a lot of the sort of high net worth folks

[00:12:51] that we worked with.

[00:12:52] Wouldn't have necessarily thought that, right?

[00:12:54] But hey, now we know that let's start to deliver some content and lead with value for those

[00:13:00] particular clients.

[00:13:01] You know, you can instantly point to that because, you know, that's what they're telling you.

[00:13:05] And you're just, you know, sort of packaging it in the way that they want it, you know,

[00:13:08] based off that data.

[00:13:09] So when it comes to correlation analysis, it really just helps us to kind of bucket maybe

[00:13:14] sort of like practices or like issues, you know, folks who have, you know, X issue

[00:13:19] might have Y issue.

[00:13:20] Okay, great.

[00:13:21] Well, you know, let's do something with that data.

[00:13:23] Yeah.

[00:13:23] Let's not just kind of use it as a nice to have, but, you know, help that to really inform

[00:13:28] our strategy.

[00:13:28] So that's sort of what I'm referring to.

[00:13:29] This is really interesting.

[00:13:30] I think this is also an argument for should lawyers be solo or be part of a team?

[00:13:35] If they're with the larger team, they've got the resources.

[00:13:38] They have people like you that work in that firm.

[00:13:40] They really have the expertise and knowledge to really understand how all the data sets

[00:13:45] interrelate with each other.

[00:13:46] And more importantly, what does that mean in terms of strategy?

[00:13:50] Have you worked with firms where they thought it was going to be all IP, but it ended up

[00:13:56] being bankruptcy, which is where the money was?

[00:13:59] I mean, have you seen what were some of the surprising things that you've seen with your

[00:14:02] clients?

[00:14:03] Yeah.

[00:14:03] I think, you know, we're seeing a big shift in the go-to-market strategies a little bit

[00:14:07] what I was talking about, the restaurateur example earlier, just in, you know, being

[00:14:12] really versed in all of the business issues that happen, right?

[00:14:15] Being able to help your clients see those things that are coming around the corner.

[00:14:18] So I think that industry plays are really big.

[00:14:22] I think issue plays.

[00:14:23] You know, when you talk about these big firms, something like COVID happens or, you know,

[00:14:27] might have cyber issues.

[00:14:28] Those are going to be sort of multidisciplinary, not sort of necessarily fitting into really

[00:14:33] sort of easy boxes.

[00:14:35] But those are the things that I find bring the most value because you've got, you know,

[00:14:40] kind of a big firm.

[00:14:41] It's a single issue, but folks looking at that prism sort of differently.

[00:14:44] And I think the clients really benefit from that.

[00:14:47] You know, when I was at Prior, my former role at Prior Cashman as a CMO there, we, you know,

[00:14:53] putting together different COVID events, right?

[00:14:55] We had force majeure issues.

[00:14:57] We had supply chain issues, all the issues that were prevalent, you know, labor issues

[00:15:02] that people being furloughed and all this different stuff.

[00:15:04] We were putting out these, you know, very sort of near time, you know, quick hits.

[00:15:09] And we ended up doing one just specifically focused on medical and healthcare providers

[00:15:15] and just bringing that in and just kind of that 5% customization of that.

[00:15:21] The amount of people who showed up at that, you know, dwarfed.

[00:15:24] And so it's a little bit of perception is reality, right?

[00:15:26] Folks saying, hey, you know what?

[00:15:28] I'm in that business and this isn't general.

[00:15:30] They're really talking to me.

[00:15:31] And, you know, the advice may not be incredibly different, but it's just an interesting sort

[00:15:36] of psychological thing that, you know, people really want that niche, really want that industry

[00:15:40] focused advice, really want somebody who, you know, they trust is going to be looking

[00:15:44] around the corners for them.

[00:15:45] So that's kind of the big surprise is the data, you know, and you think to yourself,

[00:15:50] maybe, hey, you know what?

[00:15:52] I want to be all things to all people because I don't want to really focus my bio because

[00:15:56] of people visiting.

[00:15:57] It's like, would you rather have a 50% chance of winning five deals or would you rather have

[00:16:00] a 5% chance of winning a hundred deals, right?

[00:16:03] So kind of getting folks to think like that and being able to point to that data.

[00:16:08] That's not just, you know, some talking head coming at them and saying, yeah, you need

[00:16:12] to do it this way.

[00:16:12] Let me tell you how to run your business, but one needs data.

[00:16:15] So I'm a big fan of it.

[00:16:16] This is complex and we're playing three-dimensional chess, aren't we?

[00:16:20] We've got all these different variables and have to understand how they interrelate with

[00:16:23] each other and then throw on top of it.

[00:16:25] Why do people buy and how do we put ourselves in their path when they're ready to make that

[00:16:31] decision?

[00:16:32] I like what you talked about industry plays and issue plays.

[00:16:36] Are there any other strategic plays along those lines that you think are really good strategies

[00:16:40] for firms to consider?

[00:16:42] So, yeah, you know, client plays, I think, or, you know, another client team plays, you

[00:16:47] know, anything that you can kind of use that's going to be very strategic, cause you to really

[00:16:51] think about that delivery as opposed to sort of the shotgun approaches is always what win

[00:16:57] this the day.

[00:16:58] You know, I always told my managers, you know, I don't want to ever really say no, but it

[00:17:02] is the most important word in vocabulary when you're talking about business plans, because

[00:17:06] when you can define what you're not, everything else is really easy, right?

[00:17:10] You know, you decide you're going to kind of figure out an industry.

[00:17:14] Okay, great.

[00:17:15] Okay.

[00:17:15] Other opportunities, speaking opportunities, those other things come.

[00:17:18] Is that in this industry?

[00:17:19] No, it's not.

[00:17:20] Okay.

[00:17:20] You can really keep your eye on the prize, you know, instead of that sort of shiny quarter

[00:17:23] approach, something hits your inbox.

[00:17:25] It seems like a cool idea and there's going to be a hundred people there.

[00:17:28] Okay, great.

[00:17:29] There's no strategy behind that.

[00:17:31] You're not sort of rolling that up into the content you're writing, people you're talking

[00:17:36] to, and really having these things sort of be a creative.

[00:17:39] So, you know, I'm just a huge fan of that sort of, you know, 80, 20 rule, right?

[00:17:44] Yeah.

[00:17:45] You got clients, you know, work really hard on introducing folks and bringing folks in and

[00:17:50] always lead with value.

[00:17:52] And so, you know, how do you lead with value?

[00:17:54] You create content and insights that, you know, are really applicable to your audience.

[00:17:59] And so, you know, again, it kind of keeps coming back to, you can only do that in one or

[00:18:03] two industries tops.

[00:18:04] So, you know, being really, really good in a single or, you know, or double industry,

[00:18:10] especially as we're seeing this buying cycle change and purchasers just getting a lot smarter

[00:18:15] before they're picking up the phone.

[00:18:16] You want to make sure you're in those conversations and in those rooms.

[00:18:19] I didn't mean to cut you off, Mike, but I think that applies across the board to any professional

[00:18:23] services industry.

[00:18:24] That's something I've learned in my own niche in recruiting, where I've done a lot of IP

[00:18:28] placements, litigation.

[00:18:29] I've done a white collar investigations, corporate, but then I realized it's a hyper competitive

[00:18:36] industry.

[00:18:37] Everybody's getting a call.

[00:18:38] So how do you create distinction and just niching corporate finance, private equity in

[00:18:42] that one lane, an ancillary benefit I learned when you develop that focus on that niche.

[00:18:47] Now, everything you think about, everything you read, every conversation you have is nuanced

[00:18:53] towards that niched population and you find insights that you wouldn't have come across just because

[00:19:00] you free up so much of your space in your head, I think.

[00:19:03] And that's exactly it.

[00:19:04] You got that single lens on, you know, and you're viewing those things.

[00:19:07] How am I going to help clients?

[00:19:09] How am I going to absolutely know it?

[00:19:11] Yep.

[00:19:11] Yeah.

[00:19:11] Yeah.

[00:19:12] And so let's say, let's say somebody's struggling and let's kind of, as we bring our conversation

[00:19:17] to a close and it's very insightful and I want to have you back on the show because

[00:19:20] I know there's a lot deeper ways, but we could talk about data.

[00:19:23] We could have a whole other show just on data, I'm sure.

[00:19:26] But let's say somebody is listening and they want to start implementing these ideas that

[00:19:30] you talked about.

[00:19:31] If there are three action steps you would give them to do so, what would those three

[00:19:34] steps be?

[00:19:36] Yeah.

[00:19:36] Thanks.

[00:19:37] The first would pick a niche and run with it, you know, work and healthcare, you know,

[00:19:42] and you do great.

[00:19:43] You can still say yes, but, you know, having a focus, maybe that's fashion or whatever

[00:19:47] it is and having everything through that lens, exactly what you talk about, you know,

[00:19:51] and just your win rates are going to increase exponentially.

[00:19:55] If you can, you can do that and build, build experience.

[00:19:58] The second one is, is taking care of that front lawn, taking care of your digital footprint.

[00:20:03] You know, again, the buying cycle changing folks coming in and looking at your bio, looking

[00:20:07] to see if you're solving the problems they have, you know, you're trying to be really

[00:20:11] general.

[00:20:12] You're not keeping that thing up to date.

[00:20:13] You should be looking at your bio probably once a month and your LinkedIn profile and

[00:20:16] getting on there, you know, probably daily, you know, if not weekly.

[00:20:20] So we've got picking a niche.

[00:20:23] We've got, you know, optimizing your digital footprint.

[00:20:25] And the third is be authentic.

[00:20:26] You know, what's going to work for Jenny across the hall isn't going to work for you.

[00:20:30] If you don't like to write, don't write, you know, go speak, do something that kind

[00:20:35] of speaks to you because it shows, you know, when you're authentic about something, you're

[00:20:39] engaged with it, you enjoy doing it.

[00:20:41] And people want to be around that.

[00:20:42] And so I think it's about being authentic and leading with value to be my third one.

[00:20:47] So that's great.

[00:20:48] Well, Mike, thank you for being here today.

[00:20:50] Before you go, tell us about your offerings, your services.

[00:20:52] What do you do?

[00:20:53] What do you have that you'd like our listeners to know about?

[00:20:55] Sure.

[00:20:56] You know, I basically help law firms, lawyers, and practice groups to do more with less.

[00:21:02] You know, how are you optimizing your spend, your time to see you can be most efficient,

[00:21:07] increase your realization rates, increase your partner value points, and

[00:21:10] increase your win rates, right?

[00:21:12] You know, you don't have to spend boatloads of money on different technologies.

[00:21:16] You know, you've got to build the right systems that work for your culture, and maybe technology

[00:21:20] can help you, right?

[00:21:21] So it doesn't have to be an expensive thing, but you've got to get a process in place.

[00:21:26] And then 742 Advisors is here to help you.

[00:21:28] So that's great, Mike.

[00:21:29] Well, we're going to put your LinkedIn link on the show notes and also your company's

[00:21:33] website link on the show notes.

[00:21:34] So everybody listening, go to the show notes wherever you hear this podcast, and you'll be

[00:21:38] able to connect with Mike directly.

[00:21:40] And Mike, I'd love to have you back on the show to go deeper onto some of these concepts

[00:21:43] that you talked about.

[00:21:44] Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom and for being a guest on the show today, Mike.

[00:21:48] Really appreciate it, Scott.

[00:21:49] Thanks so much.

[00:21:49] Thank you for listening to the Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:21:56] For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit

[00:22:02] our website at attorneysearchgroup.com.

[00:22:05] To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting,

[00:22:11] or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.