TRP 221: How to Establish Credibility with a Book with Melanie Herschorn

[00:00:10] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love.

[00:00:23] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thanks for joining me on the show.

[00:00:28] What would it be like if you, in your field, were able to establish authority, credibility, and trust with your prospective clients?

[00:00:37] Well, I'm going to talk about how you can do that today with our guest, Melanie Hirshhorn.

[00:00:41] Now, Melanie helps professionals do just that with book authorship.

[00:00:46] She actually wrote a book I'd highly recommend, and I'm going to put the links in the show notes,

[00:00:50] it's called Make a Big Impact with Your Book. If you've thought about this, if you've heard other people talking about doing it,

[00:00:56] you're not sure what to do, I'd recommend first, buy the book, second, connect with Melanie,

[00:01:00] and third, you'll be on your way to doing the things I just mentioned.

[00:01:05] There's some very good tactical ideas in here, as well as a really good, well-conceived, thought-out strategy

[00:01:10] that she explains in her book. And we get into some of those ideas on this podcast.

[00:01:15] Now, Melanie has over 20 years in the publicity journalism world, so she's positioned perfectly to have this kind of expertise.

[00:01:23] And she's been helping professionals do just this for several years.

[00:01:27] I hope you get some great ideas from my conversation with Melanie today.

[00:01:30] Check out her content that you can find on LinkedIn.

[00:01:33] She also has some free resources on her website.

[00:01:36] So we're going to put all those links, as well as the link to her book, in the show notes.

[00:01:41] As always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions, Legal Intelligence Suite of Products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI.

[00:01:48] Push ahead to the pack with the power of leopard.

[00:01:51] And now here's my conversation with my friend, Melanie Hirshhorn.

[00:01:54] Thanks for listening.

[00:01:57] Hey, this is Scott Love with the Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:01:59] Our special guest today is Melanie Hirshhorn.

[00:02:03] And our topic is how to establish credibility with a book.

[00:02:06] Melanie, thanks for joining us on the show today.

[00:02:08] Thanks so much.

[00:02:09] I'm excited to be here.

[00:02:10] Yeah, me too.

[00:02:11] I can't wait to get into it.

[00:02:13] So tell me this then.

[00:02:14] My first question for you is why?

[00:02:17] Why do people get credibility when they've authored a book?

[00:02:22] Why is that?

[00:02:22] Well, as an author yourself, you know that when you hand somebody something tangible that's proof of your expertise, it just already builds your credibility.

[00:02:35] And it really makes you seem as though you are an expert.

[00:02:40] And of course, you already are an expert because you wrote the book on it.

[00:02:45] Absolutely right.

[00:02:46] I love that.

[00:02:47] And so how do you think people and I don't want to talk about how to get started in that, but I've seen a lot of people that have authored books and I've seen others that haven't.

[00:02:56] And it seems like, do you think it's a little bit crowded, the marketplace with people writing books lately?

[00:03:00] Or do you think it's just from your experience?

[00:03:02] Most people haven't done it.

[00:03:03] They think it's too much work.

[00:03:04] What do you think about that?

[00:03:05] I think that you and I probably travel in circles where a lot of people have authored books, but the general population, no, they don't have.

[00:03:14] They not only have they not written books, but they don't even know authors the way we do.

[00:03:20] You and I are authors sitting and looking at each other across this Zoom call.

[00:03:24] But in general, no.

[00:03:26] And it is still such a great way to build your reputation and show your expertise, even if somebody else has it.

[00:03:37] Because your book could be a whole lot better.

[00:03:40] And generally speaking, when somebody buys a book on a topic, they don't buy just one book on the topic.

[00:03:47] That's great.

[00:03:48] That's a good point.

[00:03:49] I never thought of it like that.

[00:03:50] So let's say somebody decided, I want to write a book.

[00:03:54] Should they write a book that says, why you should hire me?

[00:03:59] Is that kind of what we're trying?

[00:04:00] I know that's what we're trying to get.

[00:04:02] We're trying to get business from that.

[00:04:03] Should it be so obvious?

[00:04:04] Like steps to hire people like me?

[00:04:07] I mean, what should the topic be about?

[00:04:09] What do you think?

[00:04:10] Well, it depends.

[00:04:12] I'm going to start with that.

[00:04:14] Now, in general, I mean, that's exactly what I help clients do.

[00:04:18] You know, my book that I sent to you and I know you have it.

[00:04:21] That one is the same idea.

[00:04:23] I'm working on another book, similar idea.

[00:04:25] But you don't have to be so blatantly obvious.

[00:04:28] It can be sort of woven in in a strategic way.

[00:04:33] So when you're offering stories and you're offering guidance, and then it's just sort of a natural next step for the person reading it to say, wow, this person's an expert.

[00:04:44] And when I need you, I will hire you because now I trust you too.

[00:04:49] Yeah, I get that.

[00:04:49] So as somebody is doing this, should they look at the potential outcome?

[00:04:56] I want this to be a funnel where people will be calling me or should that not be the forefront at the forefront of their goals?

[00:05:03] What do you think about that?

[00:05:05] When anyone sits down to write a book, whether they want this to be a legacy piece or the top of a funnel, they need to think of the farthest outcome first.

[00:05:14] It doesn't matter.

[00:05:16] Whatever it is that you want it to achieve, that's where you want to start before you put pen to paper.

[00:05:21] That's great.

[00:05:22] So let's say you're working with somebody and they said, I want to write a book.

[00:05:25] I want to get more business.

[00:05:26] And you tell them what's the furthest outcome that you want to achieve with this.

[00:05:29] And that's what we start with.

[00:05:30] I think that's brilliant, by the way.

[00:05:31] I've never heard it put just like that before.

[00:05:33] So what happens next?

[00:05:35] Do you meet with them?

[00:05:36] This is the furthest outcome.

[00:05:37] What's kind of the next step in that process?

[00:05:39] Well, then we really work on who their audience is.

[00:05:43] Making sure that, you know, for example, if I'm working with an attorney and they may say, well, I am a divorce attorney.

[00:05:50] And I say, okay, well, we got to niche that down because you're probably not helping every single human who's going through a divorce.

[00:05:56] So you want to figure out who your target demographic is.

[00:06:00] Then you really want to refine the message.

[00:06:02] What is the, you know, high level message that you want to impart with the book?

[00:06:08] And then from there, we can look at the, you know, the top 10 things that people always ask you in a sales call.

[00:06:15] That can be 10 chapters of your book.

[00:06:18] Oh, that's interesting.

[00:06:19] So let me, let me just kind of go down that path.

[00:06:21] The top 10 things that people ask you in a sales call.

[00:06:24] Is that something that people should really write down?

[00:06:27] Well, absolutely.

[00:06:29] I mean, I don't know what your sales process is, but a lot of people will have a sales script and, you know, come up with the potential objections ahead of time and have answers already in place.

[00:06:40] So why not turn those into chapters of a book?

[00:06:44] And of course, weaving in stories and client transformations and personal experience and statistics and quotes.

[00:06:53] And wow, all of a sudden you have a book.

[00:06:55] That's great.

[00:06:55] So stories, client transformations, personal experiences, statistics, and what else are kind of the building blocks of that framework?

[00:07:04] You know, any statistics or data that supports what you are postulating is the thesis of your book, basically, which is, you know, as a, well, I'm going to go back to a divorce attorney, for example.

[00:07:18] Okay.

[00:07:18] So you're a divorce attorney, you help men specifically.

[00:07:22] So you want to make sure that the stories that you are telling the client transformations are not of the woman in the, in the divorce.

[00:07:31] It's the man in the divorce.

[00:07:32] You want to talk about, you know, what, what are the alimony statistics for men in your state or anything that can really underscore why you understand their needs and how you help.

[00:07:48] That's great.

[00:07:49] That makes a lot of sense.

[00:07:50] So let's say somebody is starting to think about these things.

[00:07:54] They're working with you.

[00:07:56] What's the next step?

[00:07:57] Should they start to write an outline first?

[00:07:59] Should they start with one chapter and finish that chapter, then go to the next chapter?

[00:08:03] What's kind of the recommended format or structure for how they actually write it?

[00:08:07] Okay.

[00:08:08] So when I work with a client, I do something slightly different than most other publishers and promoters of books because I take you from beginning to end.

[00:08:19] So I'm there as the book coach helping you not only outline it, but come up with what goes into the chapters.

[00:08:27] Yeah.

[00:08:27] Yeah.

[00:08:28] And so then you get a first draft.

[00:08:30] So you and I are working on the draft.

[00:08:33] Then we have it going through the editing process and the publishing process and the marketing process.

[00:08:39] So it's all sort of this seamless one step to the next, to the next.

[00:08:45] But yes, you want to generally speaking, write the whole draft so that you can move things around and make sure that they have a flow and maybe even a story arc depending on the topic.

[00:09:00] That's great.

[00:09:00] So this is if somebody is going to self-publish it instead of going through a publishing house, correct?

[00:09:05] Yes and no, because can I just sort of, you know, tell you the three kinds of publishing?

[00:09:12] Yeah.

[00:09:12] Tell me about that.

[00:09:13] So, you know, one of the things that people often say to me when they meet me for the first time is, I don't know what I don't know.

[00:09:20] I just know that I want to publish a book, but I don't know anything to help.

[00:09:24] So I like to say that I'm the pioneer of integrity in the publishing industry because there's a lot of predatory behavior and it's gross.

[00:09:33] I bet.

[00:09:34] So there are three ways to publish.

[00:09:36] You can do the traditional publishing, which is the big five publishing house.

[00:09:40] They pay the author in advance.

[00:09:42] They have, they get most of the royalties and all the things, you know, the traditional publishing route.

[00:09:47] In order to do that, you really have to pitch your book and hope for the best.

[00:09:52] And that can be a very long process.

[00:09:54] Then, then there's the hybrid publishing.

[00:09:57] So that's where you pay a publisher to publish your book under their imprint.

[00:10:04] And again, you don't have as much creative control and you also don't get all the royalties.

[00:10:09] So then there's that self-publishing thing where people are kind of scrappy and the DIY people, but that's not what we do either.

[00:10:17] So what I do is called independent publishing.

[00:10:19] So I am helping the author publish under their own imprint, but we do it all for them.

[00:10:26] Oh, wow.

[00:10:27] And this way they have full creative control and the IP is theirs.

[00:10:33] I don't want your IP.

[00:10:34] That's yours to do with whatever you choose.

[00:10:37] And you get a hundred percent of the royalties.

[00:10:39] I will say most authors don't get rich on book sales because, you know, I just got a royalty check for $8 last month and I was like, yay, I can get one, one and a half drinks at Starbucks.

[00:10:51] Yeah, I know.

[00:10:52] Right.

[00:10:52] So, so that's why having the, that sort of farthest outcome, what is the return on your investment going to be for the book planned out before you even put pen to paper?

[00:11:03] That's one of the things that we really focus on too.

[00:11:06] That's a great idea.

[00:11:06] I want to, I want to talk about the marketing of that because I like how you take, you know, let's just call it the guts of this process and you take that on board.

[00:11:14] And I want to get to that in a second here, but let's say somebody has the book it's written.

[00:11:19] They've got it.

[00:11:20] What do they do next?

[00:11:21] How do they market this?

[00:11:22] Tell me about that.

[00:11:23] Okay.

[00:11:24] So it's a multi, it's like an octopus, lots of different tentacles and lots of different spots.

[00:11:30] I will say that a lot of times authors just focus so much on the launch that they get burnt out and then nothing happens.

[00:11:38] So we're not letting that happen.

[00:11:41] Yes, we do a bestseller campaign on Amazon.

[00:11:44] Yes, we do a fun book launch, but really we're thinking long-term.

[00:11:49] So social media for the long haul, making sure that you leverage the book to get on other people's audiences.

[00:11:57] Like you have been so kind as to bring me on your podcast and you have curated an audience of people that I'm so excited to talk to.

[00:12:07] So helping authors do that, go on a podcast tour, get speaking opportunities, get book reviews to keep going.

[00:12:16] Because, you know, I don't know about you, but when I come across a book with no reviews, I tend not to buy it.

[00:12:21] That's right.

[00:12:22] That's right.

[00:12:23] Yeah.

[00:12:23] So how has someone, so tell me a story then, Melanie, of someone that you've worked with, professional, maybe an attorney, somebody that said, I want to write a book.

[00:12:32] What were some of the pitfalls that you think most people fall into?

[00:12:37] I want to find out about that first, but then I want to hear about some people that you've worked with.

[00:12:40] So what do you think are some of the common pitfalls that people should avoid if they want to take this project on?

[00:12:45] Hmm. Okay.

[00:12:46] So one of the ones I mentioned was sort of keeping blinders on and feeling like you don't know what you're doing and just moving step by step by step.

[00:12:54] And then you get to the launch and then you're burnt out.

[00:12:56] So you have to sort of step back and take a big picture look at it and say, okay, what is my big goal?

[00:13:04] And how do I get to the end without, you know, curling up in a ball from exhaustion?

[00:13:12] Right.

[00:13:13] So that's why we do the process over six to 12 months and making sure that from, you know, six to nine months is when the book is published and then there's still more time to keep marketing it.

[00:13:25] So that's the blinders piece of like just only being okay, moving one step ahead and one step ahead.

[00:13:32] And instead of being able to see it as a more holistic process.

[00:13:36] Right, right.

[00:13:37] And another one is, you know, getting so fixated on the launch and ending up with launch trauma because after the launch, it's like a rocket ship going up in the air and then falling in the ocean.

[00:13:51] If you don't have that marketing machine built out for post launch.

[00:13:57] Yeah, right.

[00:13:58] And then another is, you know, not paying enough attention to the importance of editing.

[00:14:03] I can't really underscore that enough.

[00:14:06] When I work with a client, I'm editing it.

[00:14:09] We have a secondary editor and then we have a third proofreader so that you're getting three sets of eyes plus whomever else is a beta reader on your book because mistakes happen and I can't stand typos.

[00:14:24] Yeah, right.

[00:14:25] I get that.

[00:14:26] So, so I like these pitfalls, keeping the blinders on, understanding what is the big goal and how do they get to the end?

[00:14:33] Getting so fixed on the, fixated on the launch that they don't have the marketing machine post launch and then not paying enough attention to the editing.

[00:14:42] Let me ask you about that second one.

[00:14:44] You said getting so fixated on the launch that they forget about everything else.

[00:14:49] Tell me about everything else.

[00:14:51] What does that include?

[00:14:51] What's, what's, yeah, I know you mentioned some of the things before like getting on a guest as, as a podcast guest.

[00:14:57] What are some other things that you have found to be really effective to keep that book top of mind for people?

[00:15:03] Sharing it on social media.

[00:15:05] When you share it just once and think that that's enough, it's not enough.

[00:15:09] You want to share that out weekly.

[00:15:12] You want to use it to, you know, get on stages.

[00:15:16] For example, there are so many stages that are only open to authors, but you can take that book and you can say, hey, you know, I wrote this book.

[00:15:23] It's really, it would be really beneficial for your clients or your, you know, your employees.

[00:15:29] And I'd really love to come and speak about it.

[00:15:32] Yeah, that's great.

[00:15:33] So tell me about somebody that you worked with that said, I want to make this decision.

[00:15:38] What was the ultimate goal that they had in mind?

[00:15:41] What was kind of the process that you worked with them on and what was the result of that?

[00:15:45] Okay.

[00:15:45] So I'm thinking of my client, Mike, he's top of mind.

[00:15:48] He's planning to write a second book and his book was written for financial advisors.

[00:15:53] He himself is a financial advisor and he wanted to educate other financial advisors on the pitfalls of, of what financial advisors don't necessarily know.

[00:16:02] How many times can you say financial advisors in one minute?

[00:16:05] I don't know.

[00:16:06] I just like six.

[00:16:07] So when we finished, you know, once the book was published and he was promoting it, then it was a, basically LinkedIn was where we were focusing a lot because he already had a LinkedIn audience, but he was never talking to them.

[00:16:25] He was just kind of lurking.

[00:16:26] And as he started sharing about his book, he started getting invitations to speak at events that were paid events and people were asking to buy his book in bulk.

[00:16:40] So, and now he's excited to do another book.

[00:16:43] So this was sort of the excitement of it.

[00:16:46] That's fantastic.

[00:16:47] What was the hardest part for him and that whole process?

[00:16:50] The hardest part, I think it's the momentum.

[00:16:55] Once you are, you know, in the process of, of the editing, you know, you kind of get, oh, I just did all this hard work.

[00:17:04] And do I have the stamina to keep going?

[00:17:07] Yeah.

[00:17:08] Right.

[00:17:08] And so that's why you need a cheering section slash, you know, accountability and support to, to keep that momentum going.

[00:17:16] I think that momentum is key in anything, especially in writing a book.

[00:17:20] Have you seen people that get far along and then they just stop the process before?

[00:17:26] Have you seen that before?

[00:17:27] You know, that did happen to a client of mine and it was not through a fault of her own.

[00:17:34] So what occurred was she had hired a book coach who had given her all these suggestions about what kind of book to write.

[00:17:42] And she followed that person's guidance, but she wasn't happy with it.

[00:17:48] She had wanted to write a fiction account of her life story.

[00:17:52] And this person guided her to write a nonfiction version.

[00:17:55] And so she never published it because she just didn't feel right about putting that out in the world.

[00:18:02] Have you ever seen anybody write a book and it's out there and they're like, what did I do?

[00:18:07] Gosh, did I really put that out there?

[00:18:09] They've regretted that book being out there.

[00:18:12] Regretted it?

[00:18:12] No, but I have seen the, you know, the, the Sunday scaries, so to speak.

[00:18:18] It's like about to get published and they're like, oh my goodness, what's my sister going to say?

[00:18:22] Right.

[00:18:24] But the truth is your sister's probably not your ideal client anyway.

[00:18:28] I think there's some great ideas that you shared with us today, Melody.

[00:18:32] I'm going to go back and listen to this again.

[00:18:33] When I get my next book ready, I'm going to listen to this episode.

[00:18:37] And I really like the idea of asking, writing down all the things that come out in your sales conversations.

[00:18:43] And each of those is a chapter in your book.

[00:18:45] I think if you're in a business and you're not actively selling your services, but you're a rainmaker,

[00:18:49] I would say, what are those issues that are on the mind of your client prospects?

[00:18:53] And what is it that causes them to say yes?

[00:18:56] I think those could be good chapter summaries also.

[00:18:58] So tell us, Melanie, if we could summarize this in three action steps.

[00:19:03] If somebody says, I want to write a book, what are the next three things they should do?

[00:19:06] Step one, two, and three.

[00:19:08] Okay.

[00:19:09] Step one, find somebody to guide you along the process.

[00:19:13] So you don't have to make the mistakes that they have made or that other people make.

[00:19:18] So get some accountability and some support.

[00:19:22] Step two, plan what the ultimate goal of your book is before you start writing.

[00:19:30] That way you have a clear path and a clear strategy to implement as you go.

[00:19:37] And then step three is do it.

[00:19:42] But that's the hard part too, because some people will sit and write 30 minutes a day.

[00:19:49] And after a few months, they've got a book.

[00:19:51] Some people will write in spurts and then need to take a couple months break.

[00:19:55] But just keep at it and trust that your story and your experience matter.

[00:20:03] That's great, Melanie.

[00:20:04] Thank you for being here today.

[00:20:05] Before we go, we have an idea of what you do, but tell us more.

[00:20:09] If somebody, and we'll put obviously all of your contact information on the show notes,

[00:20:13] but if somebody says, I'm going to talk with Melanie, what should they expect from you in

[00:20:18] terms of your services?

[00:20:19] Oh, absolutely.

[00:20:20] So if somebody says, you know, I have an idea.

[00:20:23] I want to write a book that's really going to help me build my expertise and my credibility,

[00:20:28] you know, a reputation brand building book.

[00:20:30] I can help you write, publish, and promote the book so that you are really getting a return

[00:20:38] on your investment and growing your reputation with the book.

[00:20:43] That's great.

[00:20:43] Well, Melanie, thank you for being here.

[00:20:45] And for everybody listening, if you're thinking about authorship, reach out to Melanie, talk

[00:20:49] with her.

[00:20:49] We'll put even her LinkedIn information and all that on the show notes, wherever you hear

[00:20:53] this podcast.

[00:20:54] Melanie, thank you for being here.

[00:20:55] You've been a great guest.

[00:20:56] You've given us some great ideas.

[00:20:58] Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today.

[00:21:00] Thank you so much.

[00:21:04] Thank you for listening to The Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:21:08] For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website

[00:21:14] at attorneysearchgroup.com.

[00:21:17] To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting, or

[00:21:22] executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.