TRP 220: The Six Pillars to Becoming a Happy Rainmaker with Jen Gillman

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high stakes headhunter, author, and professional speaker, Scott Love.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thanks for joining me on the show.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things I love doing is talking to people that do work similar to what I do and getting a fresh perspective from how they see the world.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's exactly one of the reasons why I hang out with Jenn Gillman, who's also a legal recruiter.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's my special guest today. Jenn has an interesting perspective as a legal recruiter because she looks through the lens of rainmakers becoming happier.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that we're going to dig into today are the six pillars to becoming a happy rainmaker.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Make sure you check out Jenn's website. We'll put that link on the show notes, as well as her LinkedIn link, and some of the other resources that she has that can help you.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: As always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions, legal intelligence suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And now here's my conversation with my friend, Jenn Gillman. Thanks for listening.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, this is Scott Love with The Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to have an expert with us today and also a very close friend, Jenn Gillman.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Jenn, thank you for joining me on the show.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for having me, Scott.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: This is great. It's great to see you here.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And anyways, I'm excited about our conversation today.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And what we're talking about are the six pillars to becoming a happy rainmaker.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And so let me ask you this.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: A happy rainmaker, aren't all rainmakers happy?

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I would think when you're billing, people are paying their bills, you're collecting and you're getting business left and right.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: How can you not be happy with that, right?

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So what's your overarching thought about that?

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, actually, that's what I used to think.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I practiced law for 12 years and I was always a little bit jealous of those people with the corner office and the huge books of business because I figured, of course, they must be happy.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But as I've been recruiting for many more years than I practiced law, I've come to realize that so many of them are really miserable, but they feel trapped in their roles and they don't know how to make themselves happy.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that was really sad because some of them are the best lawyers you'll ever meet.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: They've reached the top of their career.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: They've succeeded so much.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And some of them are, I mean, lawyer suicide is a very high risk.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Lawyers are 22 times more likely to commit suicide when they're under stress than the general population.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And lawyers experience stress all day long.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So that just means 22 times more likely.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Many of them will admit to being problem drinkers, the ones that don't have mental health challenges, often have physical health challenges because they don't see the doctor.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was really very sad to me.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So we tried to come up with a way for them to figure out how to achieve some balance.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We're hoping that they can have a sustainable, enjoyable career because so many of them really enjoy practicing law.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: They just don't like what they've gotten themselves into.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: This is why I like you so much, because you see a problem in an industry that you're very passionate about.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: We're all passionate about that, but you in particular are.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're providing a solution.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You're doing something about that.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So I commend you for that.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Got a lot of respect for you with that.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Because the lawyers that we talk to, they're special people.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: They're different from the rest of the world.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: They have different types of stresses, obviously, a different job.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Who else has that kind of job?

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody except for them.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And every time you read about that, another person took their life and you wouldn't have thought that they would have done it.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just heartbreaking.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we're just going to go right there at this point.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So let me ask you this.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think if we look at, okay, the causal relationship cause and effect?

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Here it is. Step one, step two.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: How can we keep people from getting to that final step?

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think are some of the indications of that?

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think are some of the causes and what are some possible solutions?

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to open it up broadly and kind of tell me what you think about that.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. So I think that law is a little bit self-selecting of those type A personalities who are used to being good students and being told good job all the time.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: The same people who went all the way through school getting A's and A pluses and gold stars.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Then they start as lawyers and no one tells them they did a good job anymore.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: They stay up, you know, working on a 400 page document and somebody yells at them because a comma was in the wrong place and doesn't say thanks for working all night on this.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for getting the other 400 pages done perfectly.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: They only hear about the criticisms.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And as they rise through the ranks, even once they are successful and have become partners and have their own clients, they're hearing only the complaints from clients sometimes.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes their clients say nice things, but sometimes they're complaining about the bills or they're complaining about something else.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, part of it is that lawyers are sometimes perfectionists and they don't know how to say this is a reasonably good job and it's time to get a few hours of sleep now or it's time to turn it into the court now.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the best it's going to be.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: They want to just refine it a little bit more and work on that argument or that deal language.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they say that they use lack of sleep as a punishment for prisoners of war.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And we have people in these large law firms that aren't sleeping enough for years at a time.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So that by itself has been shown to cause mental health issues and they have so much going on and they're so busy that a lot of times they recognize they have a physical or mental health issue and they don't think they have time to solve it.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: They're too busy and they can't tell a client no and they can't ask for an hour off to see a therapist or go get that echocardiogram or go get the, you know, I had my own health scare, which actually prompted me to think about how it must be a lot worse for lawyers because as busy as I am, I run my own business and I have a lot more autonomy.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think sometimes lawyers feel like they don't have enough control over what happens during their day.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So let me kind of pose it this way.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember when I got into legal recruiting, I've been in recruiting since 95.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I was in a different niche, got into legal in 2009.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember people back then were talking about the billable hour.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just an awful thing.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't serve the clients and nothing changed.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just think you can't fight city hall with certain things.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So the things that you described, these are attributes of the profession of being a big law attorney.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think those are going to change.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's just, maybe we should admit it's going to be the way it is today and forever.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Most likely looking at it that way, if we can't tilt the windmill, the windmills to change the course of the wind, what can we do?

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: How can we trim our sails?

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: If we can't change the direction of the wind, how can we change where we're going by trimming our sails?

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: What are some things that attorneys can do and people who support them can do to really mitigate that risk of those things happening?

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what the six pillars is all about.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So the first pillar is care for yourself.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_01]: The first pillar is the lawyers we work with to think of themselves as elite athletes.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to make sure you get some sleep, some healthy food, and some exercise as many days as you can.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_01]: We know you're not going to get eight hours of sleep the night before a trial starts or the night that you're signing a deal.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But you can't go through a 40-hour career, I'm sorry, 40-year career never getting any sleep.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's amazing.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of lawyers will say, oh, I only need a couple hours a night.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's the sleep that you're having.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: That's probably not a sustainable kind of pleasant way to be.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And you have to take care of your own health.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Most of your clients would understand.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I almost rescheduled my colonoscopy because I was busy closing a deal.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And there was real time pressure.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: There was somebody who had an offer from another firm that was giving them a little bit of pressure about making a choice.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And we were waiting for an offer from the firm where he really wanted to go.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was supposed to come in time.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And it got a little delayed.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was going to reschedule.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And thankfully, I happened to be talking to my mom when I told her I was going to reschedule.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And she talked me out of it because I went for the colonoscopy and I had colon cancer.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was very lucky that they found it pretty early and I had surgery.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's almost two years now and I'm fine.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But if I had put it off a year or two or however long, because I know a lot of lawyers feel like they can't let their clients down.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: They can't be gone from the office for two hours.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And I tell them to look at it this way.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: If you wait and you have a much more serious health condition, you may be gone from the office for months attending to that health condition.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe you don't survive because you wait too long.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you think it would be a lot more inconvenient for your client to have to choose a new lawyer than to have to do without you for two hours?

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anyone's clients want them to die either.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I think lawyers don't speak up and say, oh, I'm really sorry.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't have the call at 11.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm having a medical test.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Can we have it at one o'clock instead?

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure every one of your clients would say fine.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what?

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Your partners could stand in.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think what you just said is brilliant.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: We're teaching them to reframe that so that your health is in your client's best interests.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Because then they'll be on board with that.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's great.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't give better advice and you're at your peak performance as a lawyer,

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: if you take care of your health, your clients want you.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: They want your A game every day.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: They want to make sure that you're taking care of yourself well enough to give them the best advice you can.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: That's great.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me ask you this.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Before we go to pillar number two, tell me where did this come from as the six pillars?

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Is this something that you wrote?

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Something that you read?

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: An initiative of yours?

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of give us some background and context on that, Jen.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think this has a little to do with lawyer schedules too.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I always cared a lot about all of the issues that are part of the six pillars.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would sometimes speak on them or speak one-to-one with people about them.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But somebody doesn't really expect a legal recruiter to help with mental health issues or retirement or some of the other things.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I always said, oh, you know, I should really figure out a way to explain it better.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But I never took any time off.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Even as a recruiter, I love what I do so much.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm building a business and I feel like one of those type A lawyers.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, you know, it's been a long time since I practiced, but not long enough.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So even on weekends, even when I take time off, I was reading books about marketing and mindset and things like that.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And then last December, I got very sick with RSV and I felt bad enough that I really couldn't work.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I really wasn't interested in reading about marketing or anything else.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I watched a lot of Hallmark Christmas movies and I read romance novels and I just rested for a whole week.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And this framework came to me because I had enough time away from work to be able to think creatively about it.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we tell a lot of the lawyers we work with.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: When you're trying to figure out that argument for a big case or how to structure that important deal,

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: sometimes having a little downtime is what helps you to be more creative in your job.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes making sure that you plan that vacation during the year or have some time off over the weekend or have some time when you're not actually trying to accomplish something that's professional in nature is just the key to figuring out what it is that you're trying to solve.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So you've shared a lot so far, and this is just number one.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Another thing I heard you say, think of themselves, they should think of themselves as an elite athlete.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you say that?

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that elite athletes know that their body has to perform well and they understand that it's their job to protect their health.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I wish that lawyers would feel that way, too, because if you when surveyed, most lawyers will say that they really don't get any exercise and they really aren't eating healthy food and they're not getting enough sleep and they're not taking vacations.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think more than half of lawyers admits being problem drinkers and other things that are really not so good for your body.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So the ones that escape from having mental health issues often have physical issues.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: They're the ones who have a heart attack in the office and sometimes don't survive.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you think of yourself as an elite athlete, I want to make sure that this body works well enough that my mind is sharp and I give the best legal advice I can.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And you think about maybe choosing a healthier option when you're ordering in during that trial, maybe trying to go to sleep an hour earlier instead of binge watching something on Netflix.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So no pork rinds out and do in three hours of sleep.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that what you're saying?

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's it's really small stuff.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: We all bill in increments of point one.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can get off the elevator one floor below your office and walk one flight of stairs.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You can walk to the printer to get something.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You can have one salad this week instead of a burger and fries.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You can do something.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: You can make those small changes.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Just small changes.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Little minutes, small changes that leads up, doesn't it?

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It does.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So tell me about two.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Number two, what's the second pillar?

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: The second one actually probably relates to your podcast the best.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's build business.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So we understand just like you do that being a rainmaker, having your own clients is the thing that gives you leverage and power over your career going forward.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So the person who has his or her own clients is likely to be treated a little better at the firm because the firm doesn't want you to leave and can leave.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not trapped.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not in a place where they feel overwhelmed, but they don't have any other options.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And just day to day, having your own clients gives you a lot more control.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: When it's your client, you choose the team that you're going to staff.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You choose, you know, the schedule and the deadlines.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You choose when the conference call is going to be.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not going to be during your son's little league game because that's your priority.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You do that on Thursdays.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're the rainmaker, you are valuable for the revenue that you're bringing to the firm and for your, you know, deep thoughts and the time that you're putting toward it.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, if you're a service professional, your value is in constantly being available and the big number of hours that you're billing.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a little bit harder to put your foot down and say, no, on Thursdays, I have little league with my son.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you should do that.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And we would encourage you to do that anyway.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But having your own clients gives you a special kind of power at a law firm to control what happens in your day to day and feel more of a sense of autonomy.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've seen that for those, there's some, you know, let's say out of there's probably 80% of the practices in a big firm, they can develop clients that'll port with them.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: There's some practices where it's more likely that those clients will port.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: There are some where they're service partners and they're really good and they might be able to move when there's an expectation that we don't expect a book.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But for 80%, there is that expectation.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it does give people options.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's something I learned when I came into legal years ago.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, they are free agents when they have a book.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_02]: They can go anywhere.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's no non-competes because anybody can choose who their legal counsel is.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't interfere with that relationship.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And as long as the attorney honors their ethical obligations to the firm and to their clients when they move, there's not a problem usually most of the time.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think you are absolutely right.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've heard you say this because I follow you on social media.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, we're going to put Jen's social media posts on the show notes here because she's got some really good content.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a fan.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What can I say?

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that when you say this is, you need options.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you get options?

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Build a book of loyalty and trust.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we could spend, well, I mean, I've got 200 episodes on that very topic here.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: As we're running out of time here, I don't think we'll be able to get through all six.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But let's get to the third one.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll have you back on for four or five minutes.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll just give you a little overview of the rest of them.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, good, good.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: We talk about planning intentionally, setting boundaries, learning continuously and building a legacy.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So that means that we want you to take care of your health, be alive to do this, do your rainmaking activities.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So when we talk about planning intentionally, look at your calendar for the whole year.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to take the family to Europe, you can't do it on Monday, but you might be able to do it seven months from now.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So put it on the calendar like it's an appointment.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to join a networking group, find out when it meets, put it on the calendar for the whole year.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to go to a certain conference or you want to take a certain client out or do whatever it is for business, put it on your calendar.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And then if you want to work out with the tennis pro or you want to go to the gym or you want to take a walk with a friend twice a week, put it on your calendar like it's an actual appointment.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're much more likely to do it.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can schedule out the whole year, you can fit your billable time and meeting with your clients and doing all your other things into that whole year.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But when you wait until the last minute, it sometimes doesn't happen.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It's much better to spend point six or even, you know, 20 minutes if you can find it doing one business building activity every week instead of trying to do 52 of them on December 31st of the year.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that it really does all of these things build up like compound interest.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Every time you park your car a little further away and walk a few steps or order a salad.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Every time you go to a networking event, every time, you know, you plan ahead really does build up to create the life that you're looking for.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me kind of summarize this because we're running out of time here, but and I have an idea when I run it by you.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But I like this.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The first pillar, care for themselves.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Number two, build the business.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Number three, plan intentionally.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Number four, set boundaries.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Number five, learn continuously.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Number six, build a legacy.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know what all of these things require?

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: They require proactive planning.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think for anybody that's listening to this, we could tell you this is going to be good for you and you might not do it.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: This is going to be good for your wife and kids or your husband and kids, your family, the people are important to you.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And you still might not do it.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But if we say this is going to be really good for your clients, you might end up doing it.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And what do you think about that?

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is good for your clients.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And because you'll be a healthier person and you'll be happier, which is what it's all about.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you mentioned, the six pillars to becoming a happy rainmaker.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But what do you think about that perspective?

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: How changing people from reactive to proactive?

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a great idea.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is the first thing we're very much candidate facing in our company.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the first thing that I think benefits law firms equally.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're a law firm and you're wondering how to attract and retain the best talent,

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: making sure that you're going to let them have the autonomy to create a legacy that they care about,

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: to have the career that they want, to feel a sense of ownership and autonomy in their career.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And the same lawyers will try very hard to create clients and build business and help those relationships,

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: which has to add to the bottom line revenue of a firm.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely right. Well, Jen, tell us if we could summarize in three action steps

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: how somebody can get started implementing these in their lives.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: What would those three action steps be?

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first, I would take out a calendar.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the beginning of the fourth quarter.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You can plan for this quarter, but it's an excellent time to plan for next year.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Figure out when are those conferences you want to go to?

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_01]: When is that family vacation going to be?

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: What are we going to do for personal time?

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_01]: What are we going to do for business time?

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_01]: All of that.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would say that you need a business plan.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We recommend having your own business plan, whether you're changing firms or not.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So you should be thinking about what worked last year.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: What should I do more of?

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: What should I skip this time?

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: What should I double down on?

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And you should be able to use that business plan to make a business case to your firm for

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: dollars or resources or staffing for the things that you want to do.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Because as we talked about, the bigger your book of business,

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the happier the firm wants you to be so that you don't leave.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would say, and I know this is just me,

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: but I would say lawyers have enough cash to make things easy for them.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So figure out what's keeping you from having enough time to do this.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you need a house cleaner.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you need to have somebody prepare meals and deliver them to your office.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you need somebody to drive your kids to soccer practice.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it is that's standing in your way of taking care of your health

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and making sure that you have enough time to plan intentionally and build business,

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: you probably can pay to have somebody help you with it.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's great, Jen.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And for anybody listening, do this for your clients.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They will love you for it.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So tell us about your company.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_02]: What are the offerings that you have?

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you do?

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: What would you like for people to know about you, Jen?

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So the main part of our business is candidate-facing,

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: helping lawyers find their exact right, perfect fit

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: at a firm that makes them feel happier.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really all about lawyer happiness.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that sometimes when lawyers are successful,

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: they don't get any cheerleaders anymore.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And if that's an issue for you, if you feel like you are not happy,

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: you're feeling like you used to enjoy practicing law,

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01]: sometimes it's because you're practicing law at the wrong place.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's because you need a new career.

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And we have some resources to help with that too.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's part of the taking care of yourself pillar.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And we do have a really interesting landing page

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_01]: for the six pillars to becoming a happy rainmaker.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: www.happyrainmakers.com.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And we have all of these six-minute long happy rainmaker videos

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: because point one is enough time to pay it forward.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Point one is enough time to learn something.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So while you're waiting for your client to give comments on something,

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: while you're waiting for that callback,

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: you could discover something about building a legacy

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: or taking care of your health.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: We do have a lot of videos to watch

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're continuously updating them.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are going live with the resources page

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that has a lot of resources for building your book of business

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: or taking care of your health

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: or having a meaningful retirement,

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: all of the different things that relate to the six pillars.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: This is fantastic, Jen.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to put your contact information

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_02]: also in the website you referenced on the show notes.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody listening, go to the show notes,

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: wherever you hear this podcast,

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and you'll be able to connect with Jen directly that way.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Jen, thanks for being on the show.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd love to have you back on as a guest in the future.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: This was a lot of fun.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: For more information about our recruiting services

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: for international law firms,

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: visit our website at attorneysearchgroup.com.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention,

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: conference, sales meeting, or executive retreat,

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: visit therainmakingpodcast.com.