TRP 217: How to Improve Lawyer Engagement in Business Development with Lynn Tellefsen Stehle

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Rainmaking Podcast.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Who's did by High Stinks Head Hunter, author and professional speaker, Scott Love?

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Management in Business Development.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not a lawyer, this is still going to work for you if you're in professional

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: services.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Then my guest is Lynn Tellefsen Stehle.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Lynn is an expert in law for marketing.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: In business development, in fact she worked as a business development manager for

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Dentons and worked for almost 12 years with K-Hill as their global director of marketing

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and communications.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: She works for a company called Nexel, which is a software company.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: She's their head of client collaboration and their company helps lawyers, marketers

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and business developers work together to grow the firm.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you connect with Lynn, look for her contact info on the show notes so wherever

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: you listen to the podcast, go to the show notes and you'll be able to connect directly

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: with Lynn.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you've got some time, I'd really appreciate going to Apple Podcast and writing

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: a nice five-star review and mentioning Lynn by name.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I know she'd appreciate that and I would also.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: As always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence, suite of

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: products, firmscape and leopard BI.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Push ahead of the pack with the power of leopard.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And now here's my conversation with my friend, Lynn Tellefsen Stehle.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, this is Scott Love with the Rain Making podcast.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Our special guest today is Lynn Tellefsen Stehle.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And today we're talking about how to improve lawyer engagement in business development.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Lynn, thanks for joining me on the show today.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's great to be here.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Scott, thanks for having me.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited to dig into this.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You've got a rich depth of expertise in this area.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And even though we're talking about improving lawyer engagement if somebody's listening

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're not in the legal industry, if they're in professional services, I'm sure these

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_01]: concepts can be malleable and still apply.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So let me ask you this in terms of somebody that's listening to this that might be in a leadership

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: role.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think the main problems are that keep lawyers from getting more engaged in business

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: development?

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's kind of start in that line of conversation.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure thing, I think the first would be the recognition that the skills in business development

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: are different from the skills it takes to practice law and deliver good service.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's that recognition and whether or not it's a priority.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think in my experience, those who are very successful in their business development

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: prioritize business development activities.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me kind of go down this line because I know partners, very successful partners,

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: they are amazing.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: That's their practice at what they do, very detailed.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_01]: They earn the client trust because of the work that they do.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But some of them have confessed to me, they feel this almost this hypocrisy and they

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: feel it's contrived when they feel like they have to go out and sell themselves and actually

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: do the work it takes to get and build those relationships.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: They feel I don't know maybe they feel it's beneath them, maybe they shouldn't have

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to do that.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's kind of start at attenently what do you think people should, what should their

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_01]: philosophy be to overcome that hurdle?

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about that?

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great question.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a matter of comfort and proclivity frankly.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean business development training isn't typically given in school, right?

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So there has to be a comfort level number one and an integration of those activities

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: into the day to day.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So making it a habit and making it just as a matter of course in how you serve your

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: clients.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So for instance, being a connector typically there's a value to your network and those

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: in your network.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So at attenently I think the answer is to how can I be of service to those in my network?

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Whether that's a referral source or a prospect or a client, I think that should be

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: top of mind.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I like that because I think when that person that I'm thinking about, that person is

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: not what I would categorize as a swash buckling rainmaker.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to be the life of the party.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But I know that person would feel really comfortable thinking how can I be of service

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: to those in my network?

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I like that idea a lot.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: That just brings up another thought for me that I'd love to share, which is the composition

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: of the composition of a team and in this case the composition of a team of lawyers is something

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that's important to take into consideration.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So for leadership of the firm, look at who has the different skills and plug them in

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: where their interests intersect.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So what do I mean by that?

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Some folks who are geared toward client planning and client service, they're great

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: with the clients, they help strengthen relationships improve the service delivery.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there are other folks who are more comfortable on the golf course, comfortable

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: in the cocktail party.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So recognizing that and allowing folks to participate where it intersects with their comfort

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: level, I think is a really helpful way to look at it.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I do know some firms that are focusing their lawyers on either client development

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and client planning or on what we would call business development or growth or new client

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: intake.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So recognizing that and meeting folks where they're at, I think, provides a level of comfort

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and a greater likelihood of success.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's great.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe we could kind of go down this path and kind of segment what are those areas

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_01]: of a high functioning business development organization, a team of lawyers, so to speak.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So we can identify, okay, I need to have a quarterback over here, I need to have somebody

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in this position, you know, who's going to be first base, who's going to be the left

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_01]: field?

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what are the different team parts that you've seen within teams of lawyers that are effective

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: in doing business development?

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's typically the point of contact or your contact partners, your relationship

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: partners.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Those folks who are kind of front and center on top of existing and future client needs,

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: There are folks on the administrative side who are helping connect the data.sodes speak

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: to help show how clients are consuming content.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: What is our participation in events look like all of those stuff?

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, no, I think things.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And delivery in that internally so that there's a proactive sustained focused effort on

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: client needs both today and tomorrow.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So it is a team sport and everyone plays a role.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, in the law firm contacts, there's different expertise that the lawyers are

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: coming in matter to matter as it were and as it grows.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So taking that all of that into consideration is important.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So client teams, sector focused marketing, strategic initiatives that are happening throughout

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_02]: the firm that every lawyer is engaged in and knows his or her role.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And that different firm to firm whether you're a boutique, firm with, you know, 300

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: lawyers or you're a much larger firm.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So the structure is changed.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely right.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: What if there's somebody that's just not chipping in to where they need to be on the

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: team?

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say there's somebody that people know what their roles are but they're just not whatever

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: reason.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: They're just not contributing to the team.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think that leaders should do with that individual?

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you think they should handle that person?

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a great question.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think ideally there would be some support in the form of coaching.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I think business development coaches are really important and whether they're internally

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_02]: provided, so you have your very specialized marketing and BD folks internally.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll share with you that in my experience in 17 years at law firms in the business development

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_02]: marketing capacity, I was really underutilized in my team.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: There are resources and these resources absolutely should be recognized and used.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But I do believe that coaching is important because people's lives change, right?

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So we need to understand why that's the case is one of the same Scott.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And people have situations and it's been closed.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why it's so important to make business development a habit and to integrate it

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: into your day to day.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you do that, when the stuff hits the fan so to speak and life takes a curve ball,

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: you have that momentum to sustain you and also working in a team is important because

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: you have the rest of the team to also help.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So my answer to that is you need to understand specifically what's at the root of that

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and meet folks where they're at to provide them with the level of support they need

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and that level of support is going to change its dynamic.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, one thought I had as you're describing this and I'm envisioning here's a firm

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: whether it's a small medium or large firm, it doesn't matter a team that's working together.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: They go out of team leader that understands how to lead the team.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: They know how to do the things that you're talking about.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: What are the strengths and deficits people have?

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: How can I put them in these roles?

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: How do we get regular habits and habits as you know those carry you forward?

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Even when you don't feel like it the habits are going to do that because you've got that.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You've got that rhythm and that cadence so to speak.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_01]: What I've seen is that this is a good story to recruit other rainmakers.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: If a firm has this, this is a story that they can tell to prospective laddorals.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you about our team.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you about the rituals that we have and the recognition that we have.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you about how we're structured internally, not just the marketing

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and the business development people are colleagues, but the attorneys.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And how we work and how we take our non-billable time and we're working together in the service of our clients

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and by the way we benefit because we get the call and we get more business from that.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I think what you have described, I think we could take that.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: The double advantage of that is oh yes it's going to be good for business development

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's also going to be good for recruiting partners and what most people don't realize

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: is that you recruit a partner that has big book of business.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the book, look at the client relationships.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: That relationship that follows that new partner on day one, the trust starts on day one also.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_01]: The trust that he or she is built with the several dozen seesweet executives over decades.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: All that trust starts on day one and as you know trust is where business development really

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: really begins.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So let me ask you this, can you tell me a story of an organization

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_01]: where and you don't have to say who it is or anything like that or who the leader was,

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: but this person made a decision.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to get my people more involved.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to help improving law or engagement.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: What was it like when they before they decided to do that?

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: What action steps did they take to build that team or maybe to lead it or kind of shift the focus

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and then what were the results of that?

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah sure, I'd be happy to do that.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And you brought up some really good points that shouldn't be, I just want to make one point

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: before I answer that question which is the business development infrastructure and foundation

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: has I've seen increasingly become important in that lawyer lateral recruiting Scott because

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: they expect an infrastructure, they expect to have certain levels of support.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's really important if you're a progressive forward reaching firm to make sure

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you have that so that folks know before they get there.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And I will also share with you that I have been in several instances when I was in firms,

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: conference room E would call and I would be called down to conference room E and I would be

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: met with a new perspective lateral partner.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And the reason I was there was because that's exactly what they were asking.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to speak to your head of marketing and business development and I want to understand

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: what kind of support I and or my team is going to receive if we are to be here.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think I just want to point that out that I think that's becoming increasingly important.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen that become a far more common question.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the work I do today at Nexel, there is certainly positioning

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: within firms that this resource is for your professional development

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: as well as for the well-being of the firm.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So getting back to your question, I know you asked a question.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So getting back to the question, there was a recognition that there was a strategy

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and there was both goals. And so the question became how do we achieve our growth goals?

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And so the first step was looking at the infrastructure that we had and the composition of the team.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And we conducted feedback interviews. So there was a survey and some interviews that we did

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: internally to really get a better handle on what the needs of the group would be relative

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: to the growth goals. And then from there there was an infrastructure put in place internally

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: to help to identify the needs, fulfill the satisfy those needs, and then grow the program.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And the first step was a pilot program. And so that program was carefully kind of put together and chosen.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And the pilot ran, it was extremely successful and then it expanded from there.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think that's unusual for really any organization.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But certainly for a law firm organization when it comes to something new,

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: having a pilot and being really close to it and handling it exclusively internally.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Then shaping it and satisfying it seemed to be a winning formula.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And so how long did you know that you had proof of concept? This pilot program, this is working,

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: how long did it take before you actually saw the that you were bearing fruit from your efforts?

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, that's a great question. I recall it to be about three months.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, wow. And six months was the duration of the program before it became sort of institutionalized.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_02]: That's great. And yes, I would also say that I think it's sort of,

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think it's common for folks to especially provide training and development in the business

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: development in a sense for newly made partners. Yeah, tell me about that. What do you mean by that exactly?

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So you know, the shift in transition as a support mechanism,

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I've certainly worked with firms that find it's important to provide that layer of support at that

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_02]: flexion point. So you've just your transitioning from being an associate to being a partner.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, there's a whole range of concerns and new responsibilities and activities

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and providing the a more intensive structured business development curriculum,

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: uh-huh. Hence to be appreciated and put to good use and not to say that there,

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: there isn't value or that it isn't common to have associate business development programs.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Those that see those happening far more frequently today than I did say 10 and 15 years ago.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But to provide that level of support, when you're a assuming a new position is really important

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and business development is a purposeful initiative, ongoing initiative. And if you've not had that kind of training,

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, really how can you expect anyone to feel comfortable with it?

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: To sustain interest and to sustain interest, you need the skills,

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: you need a system, an approach that's sustainable for you. And you need to be plugged in by your firm

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: into the places that you feel most comfortable and also have an opportunity to grow your own skills.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: That's great. Yes. Do you think that firms should they say, okay, here it is,

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: your introduction to business development and six weeks later, good luck or should they have some sort of

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: regular ongoing training development related to that pretty much for younger partners, any partner

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: or associate's what have you seen as most effective in that regard?

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. I think that you need to have a full structure. The firms should provide a full structure.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not a one and done. Absolutely not. I mean, I think folks can uplevel their skills.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe in coaching and business development coaching. I think there are some great coaches out there

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and great systems out there. David Acre comes to mind. Ross Fishman comes to mind. I learned

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: my business development for legal training from the Flanary Institute, you know, way back when

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: the point is to find a system or an approach that works for you in your firm and help

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: folks to adopt it and support them along the trajectory of their business development journey. The goal

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I think is for lawyers to have a business that's intentional where they can find the matters and

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_02]: the clients that they most want to work for and actualize their niche. So how do I find and

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: merchandise my expertise? Let's say you're an FCPA lawyer. Right. I've done some great work in

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_02]: investigations for some big clients. How can my marketing team help me to identify

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_02]: similarly situated prospects? Those are the matters that I want and that comes down to, you know,

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: client planning, good marketing, sustained marketing and creating the network and creating that

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: comes ultimately, comes down to your ability to strengthen and nurture relationships and

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_02]: organize them. And to handle as many of them as you can using all of the resources that are available

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: to you. That's technology. And internal resources. That's integrations that allow you to kind of

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_02]: connect the data dots to tell a story and peak around the corners so you can anticipate your clients

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: needs. It's been in the right place at the right time. Yeah. To do these days and ever be

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: fuller, but it is more important and it takes focus and it takes a team. I think it takes a team anyway.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: If you get, if you have the resources, you should be using them. Absolutely right. And I've seen

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: some firms I think they've done really well and finding innovative ways to do it. I think one of the

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: developers chief sales officer you have the S word in a title in a big really good firm. And I

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: remember talking about that and he said, really, I mean it summarized it succinctly in account

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: management where you're looking at those specific clients as a count. How do we develop them?

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: How do we find them developed? I thought that was really good. I think even our good friend

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Darrell Cross with Norton Rose Fulbright internally business coach. I mean who's a real better

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: coach than someone that's really coach than him. And so I think some firms had done really well

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_01]: by really making this a priority because and I know we talked about this earlier, I think some

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: partners they just have this hesitation. Maybe they think it's low brow. Maybe they think I'm an introvert.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't do this. I'm an attorney. That's why I went to law school and I want to be an attorney,

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: but they've got to be successful in earning trust. And I like the way you talked about that earlier

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that how can you be of service to other people? Think of it as a selfless endeavor where you're

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: giving and of course it's going to come back to you and all that. But let me ask you this,

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you think COVID has impacted how people do business development? I can't believe it's been

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_01]: years since that happened. What do you think over the last four or five years? What do you think

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: some of the changes are in how attorneys do business development? Sure, on my mind is still thinking

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_02]: about what you said a few minutes ago and I just want to note that I'm a real big fan of both

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Darrell and Steve for both of the reasons that you mentioned and their great examples of both

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: external and internal folks. But I hear what you're saying about sales is an appetizing thought

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: to me if I'm a lawyer in some instances. So to your question, COVID has changed the world dramatically

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of business development. We see a greater return to in-person events but we don't see

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: folks in their offices as often. So there's more competition for those coveted spots where someone

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_02]: is in the office. For instance, I live in the New York metro area. Folks in New York City,

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_02]: they're basically Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. That's what you're seeing. So you have more

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: in-person events and an appetite for in-person events because folks are starved of in-person

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: events. It was much more difficult to do business development. And I think there's a fatigue,

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: then like a webinar fatigue. I know people, I don't know about you, but I know folks who sign up for

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: webinars knowing that they can't attend but they're interested in the content and so they'll listen

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_01]: to it later. Do you know? Like that? Oh, I do. I do. Download it. I'll listen to it when I'm on the

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_02]: right. Absolutely. So there and there's a lot of content now that used to be the problem,

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: right? There wasn't enough content. Well, COVID created a situation where firms were creating

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: more content than they ever had before. So that it kind of solves the problem of how do we create

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: content, whether that's audio, video or written alerts or memoranda. So they've cured that. So

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a plethora. There's a lot of content. There's not a lot of competition for attention.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of problems with focus. There's problems with what I call context switching. You

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: really, it's much more difficult today to capture someone's attention and to keep it.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So that is one way that has changed. And I think you're less likely you want to get folks in person.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the ultimate goal. How do we get folks to come to our event? And I think that that's harder

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: than ever before because folks just aren't in the office as much as they used to be and everyone

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: has a life. Yeah, right. Right. You can't, and you see it when you plan any kind of events

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: because when there's something going on in the city, there's so many more events and you can really

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_02]: feel that that's a challenge. And I think what you said, I agree and I think that's interesting

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and I hadn't really thought of it like that. I think people, they're like, well instead of six

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: events a year, I might only go to two maybe three in which ones are they? They're going to be conferences

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: of trade associations or like with rain dance for LSSO legal sales and service organization.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: That's one that people are like, you know, I'm definitely going to go there. So I think I think

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that's good. People can figure out, okay, what are the events that they're clients are going to

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: go to and how can you put yourself in their path by sitting on a panel at that event? Now you

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: look like the expert, right? Those are some tactical things that I'm sure we can dig into at some other

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: time. But Lynn, let me ask you this. You've been a great guest on our show. You've given us some really

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: good actionable content. If somebody wanted to implement some of these ideas and really get started on

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: this, what are three action steps you'd recommend that they should take to do so? She

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: were step number one adopt a systematic approach. As a seller do we need to have a systematic approach

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: to client planning and business development that's sustainable? Right. One of our types of particularly

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_02]: like is the snowball system by mobile and one of the reasons I like that is because it's so simple.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: It could be for any professional service. It's easy to follow and it's easy to integrate into

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: your day to day and I think that's a big thing these days. How do we integrate this into your

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: day to day? Step two, commit to business development, make relationship management important.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It is a priority and you will have to carve out the time. Use your specialized resources

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: the Darrell process if you're fortunate enough to have someone like him. Use those resources.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Step three, get support. Put modern technology to work for you. I have the insight from working

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: at Nexel to tell you that connecting the data dots to see the story and to be of greater service

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: to those near professional network is easier than ever before. I've heard from numerous business

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: development coaches, maybe a lawyer can handle 9 to 12 relationships at a time. Maybe it's more

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: but use technology. So the three steps got. That's great, Lynn. Mittman support. I love it.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I love it. Tell us about your company. Tell us about your offerings. What do you have? What do you

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: do that you would like for? Listeners to know. Yeah, thank you. So I work at Nexel. Nexel is an

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: all-in-one collaboration cloud. It's CRM, it's ERM and it's a marketing system. And that's the

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: former law firm CMO. Nexel Scott was the system that I always wanted but didn't exist at the time.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted it both for my lawyers and the business development aspect and for my marketing team.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So imagine this. Imagine one system that unites top of funnel and true business development

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: functionality into a single system. And that's Nexel. A big fan of less systems and more functionality.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's great. I love it. Well, that's great. We're going to, in for everybody listening,

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to put Lynn's contact info on the show notes. So wherever you listen to this podcast,

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: go there. We'll put her LinkedIn profile link as well as your company's website and other contact info.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Lynn, thank you so much for being on the show. You've given us some really good content.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have you back on in the future. And thank you so much again for the generous of you

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: your wisdom today. Oh, thank you Scott. My pleasure. My pleasure.