TRP 208: Principle-centered Rainmaking with Chris Batz

[00:00:01] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high-stakes headhunter, author and professional speaker, Scott Love. You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, and my name is Scott Love. Thanks for joining me on the show.

[00:00:28] My special guest today is a close friend, someone I've known for a long time, and his name is Chris Batz. Now, Chris is a legal recruiter and author and also produces a fantastic podcast called The Future is Bright.

[00:00:41] We're going to put links for all those on the show notes. Now, Chris, what is he a competitor? What? This is the first legal recruiter I've had on my podcast ever. Am I opening it up to the competition? Absolutely.

[00:00:52] There's enough business to go around, and I really think that what he has to share is going to help you. It doesn't matter what industry niche you focus on or what type of professional services you're in, the concepts that we talk about today are malleable and will

[00:01:07] fit you. And what we're talking about today is really principle-centered rainmaking. This is a conversation where we go deep with Chris, talking about some of the overarching principles that have guided him on his journey to success as a rainmaker.

[00:01:21] I hope you get some great ideas from this interview with Chris. And by the way, if you got a minute, I'd really appreciate it if you gave us a nice five-star review on Apple Podcasts. And please mention Chris by name if you do that. I'd really appreciate that.

[00:01:35] As always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of Products, FirmScape and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. And now here's my conversation with my close friend, Chris Batz. Thanks for listening. Hey, everyone. This is Scott Love.

[00:01:53] Thanks for joining us on an episode of the Rainmaking Podcast. And I'm with a close friend of mine, Chris Batz. And today we're talking about what it means to be successful in rainmaking and some of the principles associated with that.

[00:02:06] So, Chris, thanks for joining us on the show today. It's my pleasure, Scott. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. I've seen you in action. I've known you for a long time at various groups that we're part of.

[00:02:16] And I've always admired you in your sixth year of drawing, even going to get an MBA. And that's at Columbia. Is that right? Correct. Yeah. That's great. So tell us then what has been the secret of your success, Chris? Well, I think it's different for everybody.

[00:02:32] And I also am a big believer that there is no overnight success. So one of the dynamics and principles I'll share with you, Scott, today is the power of patience, the importance of compounding and doing things quietly without needing to get attention.

[00:02:49] And so I do a lot where I focus on things and I learn in a refine, but I also put my head down. So I have this insatiable appetite to learn and grow. And so it's interesting.

[00:03:03] When I got into recruiting, I actually got into marketing first and I was introduced to partner recruiting back in 2010. And so I had built a firm from a direct marketing standpoint first. And it had some benefits that drove clients and candidates to us in a passive way.

[00:03:23] That was one thing that I put a lot of time into and, frankly, money in an investment and built a moat around a business that originated business without me ever having to pick up the phone. That was a beneficial thing.

[00:03:35] Business changes over time constantly and you have to constantly learn and grow. So I like doing things differently. I like being kind of a contrarian. Another principle that I'll share is the measuring stick of life. How do you define success? I don't define success conventionally.

[00:03:54] I don't look at pocketbook, although I have goals around financial goals for my life and my family. I look at a lot of other things very personally that are important to me. So I'm not staring at my competition. I make friends with my competition.

[00:04:08] I don't even think of them as competition. And the people that are competition, I gladly take their business because clients don't like working with them. They would rather work with my team. And so I look at life differently. I look at through a different lens.

[00:04:21] Another thing is my journey of self-awareness. I'm a student of me and life in human behavior. And so mid-20s, I was in leadership and I was introduced to a men's coaching organization that facilitated men's retreats on weekends and coaching throughout the year.

[00:04:43] I quickly was building communities around this organization in a couple different cities and was participating in leadership in this organization for 15 years. I invested my life. It was significant to help me, hopefully, but definitely helped me mature and grow and learn about me. What are my strengths?

[00:05:02] What are my weaknesses? So I was learning emotional intelligence at a potentially younger age and served a lot of men. So I can share more. So let me ask you, I wanted to kind of go back to what you talked and so far we've got

[00:05:17] patience, your measuring stick, self-awareness, kind of the three rocks in the bucket, so to speak, so far. Let's talk more about patience. I wanted to kind of drill down on that because I think that's an area where we all need to grow.

[00:05:29] I think that our society trains us to want something right now and not just to want one thing but to want three things all at the same time. But you mentioned compounding. What does that mean exactly? Good question.

[00:05:42] So it's amazing what we can accomplish in a longer period of time that we can accomplish in one week, one month or even one year. We tend to be too hard on ourselves and we tend to give up or we don't realize the power

[00:05:57] of taking action usually in things that require some form of discipline and usually things that are uncomfortable. So as human beings, we default to things that are easy and come natural versus the areas that require growth versus areas are hard.

[00:06:13] I mean, recruiting sales or any kind of remaking skill, there is actions involved that no one else wants to do. And if you learn those, if you get better at those and you compound that over three, five, six, seven, eight years, nine years, 10 years, it's very powerful.

[00:06:31] And so I believe compounding is very powerful. And with patience, don't look at what you can accomplish in one year. What can you do in 10 years? What can you do in five? And my time horizon continues to stretch as I'm looking at finding ways

[00:06:48] to swing for the fences. So how do you keep from pulling up the plants from seeds that you've planted just to see how the roots are doing? How do you think people do they sabotage themselves by being too impatient? Do you think it's a good question?

[00:07:04] Yeah, I mean, I think definitely and I know you you share about this a lot with your membership is just, you know, people give up. They don't think their actions count towards something and re-making sales. We all know this that it's that next call that can change things.

[00:07:19] And it's the follow-up. Even that first call doesn't really matter. It's the call that's the second, third, fourth or maybe the seventh or eighth when you talk to that person down the road. So there's a concept in business school at Columbia I'm learning.

[00:07:32] And I've known through other concepts called lifetime value. And so I tell my clients and forgive me for the analogy, but it's just the reality is that I don't believe in one night stands. I believe in growing old with clients and relationships.

[00:07:47] And so it's that road ability to stay in touch and remain the valuable and build friendships. So taking what might be a business relationship and then go deeper and build lifelong friends. One of my first key clients and frankly the deal that's been

[00:08:04] the largest I've done so far, the Managing Partner is a friend. And we talk as friends and it's rich. And so I have learned over time and I'm patient with myself to learn over time the value of building deep relationships, but after getting things done.

[00:08:23] Yeah, right. That's right. I think that a lot of people think that, oh, I need to build relationships to get more sales. But the last thing that your client wants is another friend. Your client prospect needs a solution and you earn the right to build those friendships.

[00:08:40] So I like this, Chris. And it's so we got patience, your measuring stick, self-awareness, lifetime value. What do you think are some other concepts? I got more for you. Yeah. Let's go down and honestly, this is all my own journey.

[00:08:53] Like what I'm sharing is that something I was born with. It's something I've had to really work through. I wasn't patient. I did look at everybody else and what they're doing and all this stuff. And so another thing that's been incredibly important

[00:09:05] and it's partly why I'm living in New York City now versus Kansas City, which is I have, but people live small. People live safely and people succumb to fear versus using fear and being self-aware of their fear as a signpost of what they should be doing.

[00:09:27] And I learned this at a younger age, but I'm a late bloomer still. And so I've learned that what I'm fearful of, it's what I should be doing. It's what I should be running into and it's what I'm created for.

[00:09:40] And when you get close to fear and when you really see what it looks like, you're not afraid of it anymore. Yeah, the other side of it. It's just like, OK, what was the big deal of that? It's almost like it's a muscle you need to build

[00:09:53] and you develop that confidence. This is something I've taught my kids that fear is like a mist. When you walk towards it, it dissipates. And you remember that next time you do something new. But there's always next level.

[00:10:06] There's always that next thing, you know, you and I are telling you, OK, it's the partner, it's the groups, it's the office and it's the merger. And then what's after that? Well, there's other things outside of that. And it's like, you know, are you ready to step up?

[00:10:20] What's holding you back? How are you seeing yourself in small ways? And where am I? How am I playing safe? These are questions I ask myself. And so I am in my mid forties and wanting to continuously find ways to push myself.

[00:10:39] So another thing that goes along with all this is most people never know what they're made of. Most people live in their safe lifestyles, their safe paychecks, their safe cities, their safe homes. Now, I'm not talking about violence versus safety in that sense,

[00:10:55] but in their own mind, what's safe? And what's interesting is is people never push themselves either out of their comfort zone or what they're capable of doing. Yeah. And what would make their heart come alive? And what would take them to the place that?

[00:11:13] And this is a thing I'll throw out of cities when they're 80 years old. Did they regret? Yeah. Right. So part of my process coming out of covid and now looking at living here in New York City with my family and going to Columbia, never thought I'd do IV,

[00:11:28] never thought I'd be doing any of this. But I began asking some of these really deep questions. And one of the key decisions was and I use Bezos story as an example is what would I regret when I turn 80? And he was a D.E.

[00:11:41] Shaw had an amazing trajectory on his life and career would have made a lot of money compared to most people. And he decided to start Amazon and everybody D.E. Shaw was you're nuts. And he's like, I'm going to regret it if I don't.

[00:11:55] And there's things I want to do and I'm not done yet. I love that. What would I regret not doing when I turn 80? How do you think most people should interpret that question? I know you work with a lot of lawyers I do as well.

[00:12:11] And I think a lot of them they might have been trained obviously to be risk averse, but also maybe part of that is just their natural way. Do you think that philosophy can work for everybody?

[00:12:22] Or do you think there's some people that they should just keep their head down and keep making the donuts and that's just a way line? That's a great question. There's nothing wrong with making donuts. Yeah. And some of those corporate lawyers make some very nice donuts.

[00:12:35] Yeah, that's right. They make a very good living. This isn't about money necessarily. This isn't about success again. It's about the things that you value. And most people don't slow down to ask themselves the questions that when they're considering their deathbed and 80 years old

[00:12:53] or maybe not even deathbed, but 80 because hopefully you're living past 80. But to the point where you may not have the abilities to do the things you could do is a travel. Is it loving somebody? Is it having a family? Is it creating a meaningful impact

[00:13:10] in something you're passionate about and you care about? Is it is it calling? Some people don't believe in that kind of idea that there's calling on your life. But the reality is we all have gifts, we'll have abilities. Some of its unlimited potential.

[00:13:25] But what would give you something you're proud of in a meaningful life? Maybe it's maybe it's slowing down enough to pour a legacy into your children or your grandkids or doing like doing a motorcycle trip across the world,

[00:13:44] which I just read an investment book about that the gentleman did. One of the founders of Millennium Fund. There's things and it's different for everybody. It's not about looking at what the next person is doing. It's about you.

[00:13:58] So Chris, let's just say you could go back a few years if you could give the younger version of you some advice about some of these things that you've learned. What would you tell yourself at a young age? Such a great question. Don't be so afraid. Yeah, right.

[00:14:12] Swing for the fences. Take more risks. Be on more adventures. Find more ways to love. Yeah, I think it would be actions. Things you would do. Invest in Amazon and Apple. That's great. So you mentioned that you have some other ideas that you wanted to share.

[00:14:36] Yeah, so we have this limited life given to us and to be the best at what you need to do as a rainmaker as someone who wants to swing for the fences. There is actually some really critical principles around how to optimize your life.

[00:14:53] One of them is rest. Another one is working out and the other one is eating right. Yeah, right. Right. I've created an annual retreat for myself to go to a monastery for 48 hours, completely unplug, read, write, pray, and I've been doing it for over 10 years.

[00:15:12] And you asked me what my secret to success is. It's that. Yeah, well, that's interesting. How did you arrange that? How did you find out about that? So I have a very active faith, a very personal faith in my own.

[00:15:24] So when I lived in Kansas City for over 10 years, there was a monastery in the middle of Cowfields and wind turbines north of town, and they have a guest house and you can go there. And it's pretty rustic. It's like a graduated Motel 8.

[00:15:42] And I just found a way to unplug and it required a lot of discipline. And it took me several years to figure out, OK, how do I calm myself down and what's my routine when I do this and expectations and how to go about this process?

[00:15:54] And it's been so valuable for me. So I go every year. Sometimes if I'm lucky, I go twice a year. Having moved to New York, I found another monastery on the Hudson. It's amazing. The quarters are not as nice. The food is way better than the other place.

[00:16:11] And so but again, it's the same thing. I jump on a train. I go away for 48 hours. I come back refreshed. I have new perspective. I've slowed down. I've unplugged and I've got very critical insights that I have in my journal and from other things I do.

[00:16:26] So I think it's so important. Another thing is I neglected myself working really hard in my 30s. When I turned 40, I hit the gym. I hired somebody to kick my butt to observe me. So I actually went to the gym three times a week.

[00:16:41] I hired a trainer because I needed someone to show me. I hired a private gym trainer, vested a good amount of money in it. And it was wonderful. The weight I lost, all the benefits that comes with that.

[00:16:53] And I performed better and I was a number of things. And then the other one is just eating right, you know, what goes in affects you and your brain needs high performance. You know, you need to work your body hard. You need to find ways to rest.

[00:17:10] Sleep is probably the fourth one. I try to get seven or eight hours. It's hard to do it in school right now and then eating right. So longevity to maximize your impact in this world to fuel all of that. You need to take care of yourself.

[00:17:25] That's great, Chris. This is great that you shared wisdom with us today. Let me ask you this. Have you ever coached anybody on some of these concepts before? I have done a little bit. Ironically, I've hired probably a dozen coaches in my career.

[00:17:40] I've had several different coaches for all kinds of things who've taught me how to scale, who've taught me some of these things who I've got two coaches right now. Three. I've got three. I think I have three coaches I work with right now.

[00:17:51] So I'm constantly surrounding myself with coaches. I don't know if I'll do that and that may be something where I get enough demand and people want to write big enough checks. But yeah, I've always felt that I would want to inspire others

[00:18:05] whether I turn that into a business who knows. Yeah, that's great. So let me ask you this then. If you could summarize action steps as we bring our time together to a close. If you could summarize three action steps that you would give to people listening

[00:18:22] to kind of get started implementing the ideas that you've shared today. What would those three action steps be? Yeah, they're pretty compounded action steps, but I'll be a high level if I can. So hire coaches, surround yourself with people who are going to challenge

[00:18:36] you, who are going to help you go to the next level. Because you are at the level you're at because it's what you know. You need to broaden your horizons. So surround yourself with good coaches in different ones at different times,

[00:18:51] meaning invest in yourself, stretch yourself, ask the big question. What do you want to have a compass and be proud of and would not want to regret when you're 80 and really took a hard look at that? And then three, get more sleep.

[00:19:07] Yeah, so hire coaches, stretch yourself and get more sleep. I think that's great. That's a good formula. And tell us about some of the new developments in your business and then we'll put your information on how people can connect with you in the show notes for everybody listening.

[00:19:23] Just go to the show notes and you'll be able to connect with Chris directly. Thank you, Scott. So I've been very fortunate to have a team that I started scaling in 2018 with. So the Lyon Group has done lots of different types of legal recruiting placements.

[00:19:36] Today, my team at the Lyon Group, they place general counsel chief legal officers down. We also do other C-suite placements based on our clients' needs and desires where they want to fire their recruiter and work with my team, which is amazing.

[00:19:49] I've been very fortunate to have a great team and they're growing. So the Lyon Group, that's what they do. Public private companies, financial service companies around the United States. I have been approached to focus on meaningful growth for corporate law firms.

[00:20:03] So I've placed partners and groups, books, all that fun stuff. But I'm stepping into helping corporate law firms, small to medium size and some large, with achieving their strategic plans by accelerating it through vetted conversations that align with values

[00:20:20] in culture, true alignment and economics to where we have efficient conversations, fun conversations that really help accelerate client goals. The legal industry has got a lot going on and law firms that are sleeping at their desk that don't have vision and are really ready

[00:20:39] to kind of step away. It's really important to get the right people in place. And so I'm aligning myself with firms to help them survive what's coming and be leaders in the legal industry for a long time. That's great, Chris.

[00:20:51] Well, I wish you all the best of success and everything that you do. And thank you for your wisdom. I've learned a lot from you. And I hope that our listeners have as well. Thanks for being here today, Chris. Awesome. Thank you, Scott. Appreciate it.

[00:21:06] Thank you for listening to the Rain Making podcast. For more information about our recruiting services for international law firms, visit our website at attorneyssearchgroup.com. To inquire about having Scott speak at your next convention, conference, sales meeting or executive retreat, visit therainmakingpodcast.com.