TRP 196: Trust Compression and Edification with Rick Watson

[00:00:01] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast, hosted by high stakes headhunter, author and

[00:00:19] professional speaker, Scott Love.

[00:00:24] You're listening to The Rainmaking Podcast and my name is Scott Love.

[00:00:27] Thanks for joining me on the show.

[00:00:29] If you're in the business of getting business through rainmaking, then this particular

[00:00:34] episode is going to be interesting and helpful to you.

[00:00:37] How long does it take for you to build a relationship with a prospect?

[00:00:41] Well, you might be able to build that in a shorter period of time than you think.

[00:00:46] And we're going to be talking about that with our guest Rick Watson.

[00:00:49] We're talking about trust compression and then also the concept of edification and

[00:00:53] how those can help you build relationships with people.

[00:00:57] Now Rick is in the professional services area of financial services, but he's also

[00:01:02] the author of Affirm Worth Building, a blueprint for advice giving professionals.

[00:01:08] By the way, I've read that book.

[00:01:09] I'd highly recommend it.

[00:01:10] We're going to put that in the show notes as well as Rick's bio link and

[00:01:14] other information about him.

[00:01:15] So make sure you check that out and connect with Rick directly.

[00:01:19] As always, this show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions, Legal Intelligence,

[00:01:23] Suite of Products, FirmScape and Leopard BI.

[00:01:26] Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard.

[00:01:29] And now here's my conversation with my friend, Rick Watson.

[00:01:32] Thanks for listening.

[00:01:36] Hey, this is Scott Love with the Rain Making Podcast.

[00:01:39] Our guest today is Rick Watson.

[00:01:41] And today we're talking about a unique concept in business called trust

[00:01:46] compression and edification.

[00:01:48] Rick, thanks for joining me on the show today.

[00:01:50] Super excited to be here.

[00:01:51] Yes, and let me start with a plug for your book,

[00:01:54] Affirm Worth Building, Running a Better Professional Business.

[00:01:58] For everybody that's listening,

[00:01:59] we're going to put a link to where you can get Rick's book and the show notes.

[00:02:02] And I'm starting with this just because I'm a fan.

[00:02:06] There are concrete tactical ideas that I took away by reading this, and

[00:02:10] there's some things that we're going to talk about on our show today.

[00:02:12] So let me just start with that and kind of tee that up and

[00:02:15] then get into what we're talking about with trust compression and

[00:02:18] edification.

[00:02:19] And first, Rick, let me kind of ask you this.

[00:02:20] What's kind of a working definition?

[00:02:22] What exactly does that mean?

[00:02:24] With either different topics.

[00:02:25] So trust compression is the concept of compressing the amount of time it takes

[00:02:30] for someone to trust you, right?

[00:02:32] So humans are built in a very interesting way where it's the number

[00:02:36] of interactions not the length of those interactions.

[00:02:39] That's how our brains work.

[00:02:40] So when you know that, a lot of times professionals try to

[00:02:45] expand the amount of time that they're going to spend with somebody

[00:02:48] because it's more efficient for them.

[00:02:50] It's not, if what you're trying to do is to build relationship,

[00:02:53] it's not more efficient from the client's perspective.

[00:02:56] And edification, I think was the other idea that you mentioned.

[00:02:59] That's a way of being able to make referrals,

[00:03:02] give referrals more efficiently.

[00:03:04] Okay, good.

[00:03:04] Well, I can see how those two interrelate.

[00:03:06] So let's talk first about the trust compression.

[00:03:09] And as you know, being a practitioner of a professional service,

[00:03:13] it's all about earning that trust from our client prospects.

[00:03:16] And kind of elaborate on that more.

[00:03:17] Is there any sort of avenue that we can get to where we can accelerate

[00:03:22] the development of that trust between people that we really want to get to know?

[00:03:25] So we work with all sorts of different law firms, accounting firms,

[00:03:28] and whatnot, right?

[00:03:30] Financial advisors.

[00:03:31] We come at it from the financial advisor standpoint.

[00:03:34] And in that world, a lot of times what we do is we'll meet with somebody.

[00:03:38] The industry is set up to meet with somebody twice, right?

[00:03:41] So you meet with them first.

[00:03:43] You get an idea.

[00:03:44] It's an hour, hour and a half long.

[00:03:46] And then they do another hour, hour and a half long.

[00:03:48] The second meeting is about solutions and that sort of thing.

[00:03:50] What we did is when we realized this concept,

[00:03:54] we started doing 15 minute appointments,

[00:03:57] 15 to 20 minute appointments through Zoom.

[00:04:00] And we were able to build much greater trust

[00:04:03] because we would make those meetings more frequent.

[00:04:06] So the way we do it is we'll do three,

[00:04:10] maybe two to three appointments in a week.

[00:04:13] So quick little hits, people remember more.

[00:04:16] And then we go on to something else.

[00:04:17] And every time their little brain thinks,

[00:04:20] was that in a good interaction?

[00:04:21] Did I learn something?

[00:04:22] Do I remember it?

[00:04:24] And then if the answer is yes,

[00:04:25] then the amount of time that they're building with you

[00:04:29] or the amount of trust they're building with you

[00:04:31] for the amount of time invested ends up being a lot shorter.

[00:04:34] So trust compression is a really important idea.

[00:04:37] And I think every group, a law firm could do the same thing.

[00:04:41] They could think about,

[00:04:43] instead of making it the most efficient for them

[00:04:45] from the lawyer's perspective,

[00:04:48] let's think about how we can make it more efficient

[00:04:50] for the client in them remembering the concepts

[00:04:53] that we're doing.

[00:04:54] And those short little 15 to 30 minute meetings

[00:04:57] work a lot better.

[00:04:59] Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:05:00] Was that surprising to you?

[00:05:01] It was really surprising.

[00:05:02] And one of the things that I think,

[00:05:05] the number of times I've met with somebody is maybe,

[00:05:08] you know, in the first four months,

[00:05:11] I will have met with them more times

[00:05:13] than they will have met with another professional

[00:05:16] in say two or three years.

[00:05:18] And what that does for you is it means

[00:05:20] that you don't have to prove your salt every single time.

[00:05:24] You don't have to create your whole, they trust you.

[00:05:27] With whatever comes out of your mouth,

[00:05:28] they're pretty much, okay, so we need to do that.

[00:05:30] And that happens because of more frequent interactions.

[00:05:34] So tell me, what are examples of these interactions?

[00:05:36] And was this something that you then would strategize

[00:05:39] and be deliberate and intentional

[00:05:41] about setting those interactions up

[00:05:43] with people that you want to get to know?

[00:05:43] Absolutely, absolutely.

[00:05:45] I appreciate you saying that, Scott.

[00:05:46] So yes, what we did is we took apart our appointment process

[00:05:51] and broke it into component pieces.

[00:05:53] So for us, for example, the first thing we do,

[00:05:56] we flip things on its head

[00:05:57] because we were very intentional about it.

[00:05:59] So we started with risk testing

[00:06:01] in the financial advisor space.

[00:06:03] That's usually the last thing that someone does.

[00:06:05] Risk testing, is that what you said?

[00:06:07] Yeah, we just, it's like,

[00:06:08] well, if this happens, what would you do?

[00:06:09] And if this happens, what would you do?

[00:06:11] The idea there is that it's something

[00:06:13] that is a step in a financial planning process.

[00:06:16] So what we did was we just started with that first.

[00:06:18] And the reason is,

[00:06:19] cause it's the least scary thing

[00:06:22] that I'm gonna talk to somebody about.

[00:06:23] So we're building those little steps one at a time,

[00:06:27] one little block at a time.

[00:06:29] Too many advisors or too many professional advisors

[00:06:32] of some sort have a tendency

[00:06:34] to start with the most complicated thing

[00:06:36] right in the beginning.

[00:06:37] And so we wanna make those steps really easy.

[00:06:40] So somebody just goes, oh, okay, that makes sense.

[00:06:42] And they build that relationship.

[00:06:44] Yeah, and so you mentioned these interactions,

[00:06:47] like how long are they?

[00:06:49] 15 minutes, 10 minutes, something like that.

[00:06:50] 15 to 30 minutes, depends on what we're doing.

[00:06:53] We'll tell them that in advance

[00:06:55] and it just clips along.

[00:06:57] So we'll tell them upfront,

[00:06:59] the way this works best

[00:07:00] is if we do these in the same week, for example.

[00:07:04] So the first two, I wanna do like two a week,

[00:07:06] couple of days.

[00:07:07] I want you to digest what we've talked about.

[00:07:10] I'll review what we just talked about in the next meeting

[00:07:13] and then say, you're good?

[00:07:15] Yeah, I'm 100%, I remember everything.

[00:07:17] Let's go to the next step.

[00:07:19] And so at every step,

[00:07:20] I have an excuse to go back, review the last step

[00:07:23] and then go forward to the next step.

[00:07:25] Yeah, do you get pushback from people

[00:07:27] about going to the next step at all?

[00:07:28] Well, I mean, candidly,

[00:07:30] if they're gonna push back in that first step,

[00:07:31] then I haven't blown two hours in these appointments.

[00:07:34] Right? Right.

[00:07:35] So it's more efficient from,

[00:07:37] I mean, we started it out trying to make it better

[00:07:39] for clients.

[00:07:40] The irony is it turned out to be better for us

[00:07:43] because instead of having three hours,

[00:07:45] an hour driving to go see them,

[00:07:48] three hours for each appointment,

[00:07:50] an hour driving to go see them

[00:07:51] or whatever it might be,

[00:07:51] an hour in the appointment,

[00:07:52] an hour driving back.

[00:07:54] Now I've got 30 minutes into this appointment

[00:07:57] and it's really set up for a web perspective.

[00:08:00] So it works really, really well in that environment.

[00:08:03] So what happened that caused you to change?

[00:08:06] Was this with COVID?

[00:08:07] It was funny that you asked that

[00:08:08] because we were doing this prior to COVID,

[00:08:10] about two to four months before COVID started.

[00:08:14] I just happened to hire somebody

[00:08:15] who was all about taking processes apart.

[00:08:19] And so he followed me around for two months,

[00:08:21] listened to every single conversation I had

[00:08:24] and then we sat down

[00:08:25] and started breaking those conversations up

[00:08:27] and saying, look,

[00:08:28] can I outsource this piece to one of your staff?

[00:08:31] And that kind of gets into edification

[00:08:33] which is another idea,

[00:08:34] but the ability to keep me at the point

[00:08:38] of what was the sharp point of where we're going

[00:08:41] versus I'm doing the entire process.

[00:08:44] I'm only doing the entire process

[00:08:46] because I'm gonna be there for an hour and a half.

[00:08:48] But if I broke it up,

[00:08:50] could I have gotten that information another way

[00:08:52] and expose somebody to the rest of our firm

[00:08:55] which makes it less about me

[00:08:56] and more about the entire value proposition

[00:08:59] that we're trying to do?

[00:09:00] And I think another benefit people like,

[00:09:02] I think they like it when a team is supporting them

[00:09:04] instead of one person,

[00:09:05] if they get to see other people also.

[00:09:06] What do you think about that?

[00:09:07] Yeah, I 100% agree with you.

[00:09:09] In fact, it's funny,

[00:09:10] trust compression and edification both work with this idea.

[00:09:13] You think about it,

[00:09:14] the Christmas Carol, the novel or the-

[00:09:18] Oh, Dickens.

[00:09:19] Yeah, Dickens, that's what I was trying to say.

[00:09:21] That, the Christmas Carol is really,

[00:09:24] I'm gonna be visited by three ghosts, right?

[00:09:26] Well, we kind of kid sometimes with client fact.

[00:09:28] I did it yesterday.

[00:09:30] I said, I'm the ghost of Christmas past

[00:09:32] because we'll bring other people in.

[00:09:34] And what allows that is both segmenting your process

[00:09:38] through trust compression,

[00:09:40] but also what does that is the ability

[00:09:42] to have other people in that meeting.

[00:09:44] And that's that whole concept of edification.

[00:09:47] Okay, great, good.

[00:09:48] So let me keep on the trust compression thing

[00:09:50] cause I think there's some real value here

[00:09:52] that I'm kind of picking up on.

[00:09:54] And I wanted to find out more about

[00:09:55] the person that you hired

[00:09:57] to kind of learn about your process and follow you.

[00:09:59] Was that an employee of yours?

[00:10:01] Was it a management consultant, a coach?

[00:10:03] Who was that that you hired to help you with this?

[00:10:05] I found somebody who was very outgoing.

[00:10:08] We ended up making them into a partner eventually.

[00:10:11] And he came from a marketing background,

[00:10:14] from an MLM background

[00:10:16] and from running businesses background where they were.

[00:10:18] And so it was very different from our business,

[00:10:20] but those insights of how do we make this widget

[00:10:24] spin faster and more efficient,

[00:10:27] very entrepreneurial, it was very helpful.

[00:10:29] Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:10:30] So how did you actually pick apart the process?

[00:10:33] What were the things that you did to kind of see

[00:10:35] where you could make these changes?

[00:10:37] Yeah, well, I mean, again, we listened to the process.

[00:10:39] I think anyone should be able to sit down

[00:10:42] and lay out their process, right?

[00:10:44] What am I trying to achieve in each meeting?

[00:10:46] And we just simply separated those sections out

[00:10:50] and we call them way points.

[00:10:52] Before I go from this part,

[00:10:54] I need to get this in the person's head first.

[00:10:56] Then I can go to talk to the next person.

[00:10:58] If you were doing estate planning,

[00:10:59] the first thing you might wanna tell them is

[00:11:01] who are even the parties involved?

[00:11:03] Why does this even exist?

[00:11:04] There's a bunch of things that you could do.

[00:11:06] So you separate it into its component parts

[00:11:10] because you obviously have a way point

[00:11:12] you're trying to get to, you're not just talking.

[00:11:15] And then we could tighten up,

[00:11:17] once we knew those way points,

[00:11:18] we could really tighten up the conversation around those.

[00:11:20] And if you have 15 minutes to make a point

[00:11:23] and each point that we're trying to do in our process

[00:11:25] is built around what did they get from it?

[00:11:29] So I can tell them in the beginning,

[00:11:30] what I'm gonna teach you is this.

[00:11:32] And then at the end, you're gonna walk away better for it.

[00:11:35] Is that right?

[00:11:36] You asked me, how do you get someone

[00:11:37] to go from one step to the next?

[00:11:38] It's because we've already outlined the process.

[00:11:41] They know our four-step process

[00:11:42] we outlined in our very first meeting.

[00:11:45] Then we say, you're going to get this out of it.

[00:11:48] At the end of that, if they get that out of it,

[00:11:50] they go, this is awesome.

[00:11:51] They wanna sign up for the next step.

[00:11:53] And we schedule that next step in that first,

[00:11:56] each step gets scheduled at the end of the next one.

[00:11:59] I like that.

[00:12:00] And a way point, I was looking this definition up.

[00:12:01] It's a stopping point on a journey.

[00:12:04] Were there any other parts of your process

[00:12:06] that you looked at?

[00:12:06] Like, were there any choke points or things like that

[00:12:09] that might've slowed things down?

[00:12:11] So complicated things like financial planning for us,

[00:12:16] that's a longer discussion.

[00:12:18] You can't break that up.

[00:12:20] It is what it is.

[00:12:21] So we segmented that off into its own step.

[00:12:25] But that is a slower part.

[00:12:26] And I'm gonna put those steps at the end,

[00:12:28] not at the beginning.

[00:12:29] Got it. Okay.

[00:12:30] The reason is because if somebody doesn't make it

[00:12:32] to the end, then I haven't wasted a bunch of time

[00:12:34] with them.

[00:12:35] Yeah, right.

[00:12:37] What was something that surprised you the most

[00:12:39] when you started seeing that this is our process,

[00:12:42] we made this change and it helped us compress trust.

[00:12:45] And you saw, I mean,

[00:12:46] I think that's a real revelation.

[00:12:48] Was there anything else that really surprised you

[00:12:50] when you started looking at your process?

[00:12:52] I think, well, the whole thing

[00:12:53] that you could even do that,

[00:12:54] that clients are less interested in the amount of time

[00:12:58] and more interested in the frequency.

[00:13:00] Yeah, yeah. That was surprising.

[00:13:02] But I also think to me, it just shakes me all the time.

[00:13:07] There are most of our clients today in our firm,

[00:13:10] we never meet them in person,

[00:13:12] which I think is a trip.

[00:13:14] And I mean, to get somebody on the East Coast,

[00:13:17] we're on the West Coast.

[00:13:18] To get somebody on the East Coast,

[00:13:19] we've never met to transfer over three, four,

[00:13:23] five million dollars.

[00:13:25] That it's still, and it's six weeks after we've met them

[00:13:28] the first, you know, we talked to them the first time.

[00:13:31] I think that is just amazing.

[00:13:34] Yeah, yeah.

[00:13:35] I don't think that exists anywhere else.

[00:13:36] And it's because of this concept of trust compression.

[00:13:39] Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:13:41] That's really interesting.

[00:13:41] And this is really insightful.

[00:13:43] I know in my business,

[00:13:44] I recruit partners with global law firms.

[00:13:46] Sometimes I'll get lucky and I'll do a merger.

[00:13:50] I've got a lot to lose.

[00:13:52] So I have to build that trust with them.

[00:13:54] And I think that's the whole key.

[00:13:56] And one concept I've been thinking about more recently

[00:13:59] is really digging deep into why do people trust you?

[00:14:02] So I think this is just a really interesting topic.

[00:14:04] So let me talk about the other topic we had teed up,

[00:14:07] which is edification.

[00:14:08] What does that mean exactly, Rick?

[00:14:09] So edification is something

[00:14:11] that we all theoretically should be doing,

[00:14:14] which is speaking well of each other, right?

[00:14:16] So what happens, however,

[00:14:18] is that we tend to undercut each other

[00:14:21] and it happens so easily.

[00:14:23] So there are two aspects of this, okay?

[00:14:25] There's external and internal.

[00:14:28] External is I wanna refer a client to an attorney.

[00:14:32] If I send that to the attorney,

[00:14:34] I can say,

[00:14:35] I've got this guy I want you to talk to,

[00:14:37] he's an attorney.

[00:14:38] What I've done, or a state planning attorney,

[00:14:40] for example,

[00:14:41] what I've done without meaning to

[00:14:43] is I've commoditized that attorney.

[00:14:46] Because now I've just labeled them as an attorney,

[00:14:49] as a state planning attorney,

[00:14:51] and there's 100 other state planning attorneys.

[00:14:54] What I, more than that obviously,

[00:14:56] what I should have done

[00:14:58] is told a little story about them.

[00:15:01] I love Mike.

[00:15:02] Mike's awesome.

[00:15:03] He's an attorney.

[00:15:04] We've been working with him for years.

[00:15:06] I trust him implicitly.

[00:15:08] And the funny little thing about him

[00:15:10] is he's a big fisherman

[00:15:11] and boy, don't get him started talking about salmon

[00:15:14] because he's right.

[00:15:15] Well, if I'm talking to someone

[00:15:17] who's already interested in fishing,

[00:15:19] then they're going to be like,

[00:15:20] this is red meat for them.

[00:15:22] And there's a little story.

[00:15:23] So now if somebody else introduces,

[00:15:26] their friend introduces an attorney to them,

[00:15:29] that's just an attorney.

[00:15:30] But my guy actually has something about them

[00:15:33] that's unique.

[00:15:34] Okay, good, good.

[00:15:36] Well, I'm giving them a push.

[00:15:38] I'm putting my credibility in the line.

[00:15:40] The reality is in professional introductions,

[00:15:44] the opposite is mostly true.

[00:15:46] That is that we tend to undercut each other.

[00:15:49] So they'll say, I want you to talk to Mike.

[00:15:51] Mike isn't really good about returning phone calls.

[00:15:54] So if he doesn't return your phone call right away,

[00:15:56] just keep trying, okay?

[00:15:58] Because he will get back to you.

[00:15:59] Well, you've just cut their legs out for months.

[00:16:01] And the reason we do that inadvertently

[00:16:03] is because we wanna be in charge of the relationship.

[00:16:07] You know, it'd be the same thing.

[00:16:08] I would imagine siblings, right?

[00:16:09] They tend to like they love each other

[00:16:12] until they compete with each other.

[00:16:14] And then they don't love you.

[00:16:15] Then they're like fighting.

[00:16:16] And I think that we do the same thing

[00:16:18] in professional relationships.

[00:16:20] So one thing we teach is this concept

[00:16:23] of if you're going to introduce somebody,

[00:16:25] you give the client a push.

[00:16:27] Whoever it is, right?

[00:16:28] You put your reputation on the line

[00:16:31] and say they are amazing and awesome.

[00:16:33] And I think if you can do it in person,

[00:16:35] that's even better.

[00:16:36] Right?

[00:16:37] Internal edification is when you use your staff

[00:16:41] the same way.

[00:16:42] So I can say, here's my staff person.

[00:16:45] They'll take care of you.

[00:16:46] Oh, that's great.

[00:16:47] You gave them no push.

[00:16:49] I can say, I wanna introduce you to Julie.

[00:16:52] Julie is salt of the earth.

[00:16:53] She is amazing.

[00:16:54] And I tell this story all the time.

[00:16:57] If you gave her a million dollars in cash

[00:17:00] and put it in a suitcase,

[00:17:01] gave it to her for two years,

[00:17:02] you could come back and it would all be there.

[00:17:04] That's the kind of person she is.

[00:17:07] They love them, right?

[00:17:09] They think they're awesome.

[00:17:10] And you do that, that's how you grow your business

[00:17:14] because if you're the center point,

[00:17:16] then you've created an inability

[00:17:19] to grow past a certain point

[00:17:21] because who wants to talk to anybody less than you?

[00:17:23] Right?

[00:17:24] But if you build the people up around you,

[00:17:26] another way to do that would be to say,

[00:17:28] look, I'm really good at what I do.

[00:17:31] I'm amazing at certain things.

[00:17:33] But I'll tell you, what I'm best at

[00:17:35] is introducing you to the people who are even better.

[00:17:38] Whoa, you've just opened this door

[00:17:40] to all these other relationships, right?

[00:17:43] Accountants, attorneys, financial advisors

[00:17:46] that I'm really good at finding

[00:17:49] the right people to talk to.

[00:17:51] So now you're no longer even an attorney.

[00:17:53] If you were coming at it

[00:17:54] from the perspective of the attorney,

[00:17:55] now you're a problem solver.

[00:17:58] Yeah.

[00:17:59] Let me ask you this, Rick.

[00:18:00] Let's say if it's an email introduction,

[00:18:01] you don't have a chance to call them.

[00:18:04] You've got a referral.

[00:18:05] How would you do it via email?

[00:18:08] Well, so email is one of my least favorite ways

[00:18:10] of doing it.

[00:18:11] But if I was gonna do it by email,

[00:18:13] I would still introduce it to the person verbally

[00:18:17] or sometimes, I guess you could.

[00:18:19] So verbally and then I would send an email confirmation

[00:18:21] with the persons.

[00:18:22] I would copy the person on an email

[00:18:24] and I'd say all sorts of nice things about them.

[00:18:26] Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:27] By the way, it's one of the first things

[00:18:28] that we ask when we get a referral.

[00:18:30] I'll say, what did they say about me?

[00:18:32] Oh, that's interesting.

[00:18:34] The client will be like,

[00:18:35] well, they said you're a financial advisor.

[00:18:37] If they said that, that's a problem.

[00:18:38] And now I need to go back and coach that person.

[00:18:41] If they said, oh, he just said you're just amazing

[00:18:44] and they love you and I've had a long relationship

[00:18:47] and oh, great.

[00:18:48] Then I know my referrals are actually coming in right.

[00:18:50] We teach our professionals that we deal with

[00:18:52] to ask the same question.

[00:18:54] But to your point, I'm sorry.

[00:18:56] No, no, go ahead, Rick.

[00:18:57] You had a question.

[00:18:57] Your point on the email,

[00:18:58] if I was going to do that,

[00:18:59] I guess you could do it in an email.

[00:19:01] You could say, you know, Mike or Scott is an amazing person.

[00:19:05] We love dealing with him

[00:19:06] and I really think he'd be a great person to help you.

[00:19:09] I mean, I suppose it's just not as strong

[00:19:11] as it's personal.

[00:19:12] Yeah, yeah, you're right.

[00:19:13] Well, I can see when you have this sort of method,

[00:19:17] when you push it, as you mentioned,

[00:19:20] those people you refer opportunities to,

[00:19:23] they'll want to reciprocate, won't they?

[00:19:25] Well, they will.

[00:19:27] But I think the world is full of non-reciprocation.

[00:19:30] And part of the reason is because we don't trust each other.

[00:19:33] Edification's the first step

[00:19:35] in getting someone to trust you, right?

[00:19:38] So if you've just introduced them very strongly,

[00:19:40] you might have to do some coaching.

[00:19:42] I think we do a lot of coaching

[00:19:44] to get somebody to actually make that mental shift

[00:19:47] because even then they kind of still commoditize you.

[00:19:51] Yeah, right, right.

[00:19:52] Well, I like how this definitely puts yourself out there.

[00:19:56] Is there any risk associated with doing this?

[00:19:58] Have you ever had this where you've heard

[00:20:01] I think the biggest risk is the person doesn't do a good job.

[00:20:04] And first, you shouldn't refer somebody

[00:20:07] unless you know they're gonna do a good job

[00:20:08] and you know what their process is,

[00:20:09] which is why one of the things we do is,

[00:20:11] hey, I wanna send referrals to you.

[00:20:13] I figure you're gonna send referrals to me.

[00:20:14] I wanna go through my process with you

[00:20:16] so you understand it.

[00:20:17] But secondly, yeah,

[00:20:19] eventually somebody will disappoint you

[00:20:21] because that's life.

[00:20:23] And then you just say to the client, wow, amazing.

[00:20:27] He's so good all this other time.

[00:20:29] It's hard to grasp that you had a bad experience there

[00:20:33] and we'll use this for coaching for them

[00:20:35] to get it to be better.

[00:20:36] And I think mostly people just wanna be heard.

[00:20:39] So, you know, if you got more of those,

[00:20:42] you're not gonna continue to make those referrals.

[00:20:44] And let me ask you this.

[00:20:45] Let's say somebody who's listening to this

[00:20:47] wants to get more referrals.

[00:20:49] What do you think some things are

[00:20:50] that they should keep top of mind

[00:20:52] if they want to become more referable?

[00:20:54] So the most important thing about getting referrals

[00:20:58] is to be referable.

[00:21:00] And I think people really miss that.

[00:21:02] So an attorney sends me his webpage and it's horrible.

[00:21:08] I mean, you're making it difficult.

[00:21:10] Like, or there, I wrote a white paper.

[00:21:13] Here's my white paper and it's 27 pages long.

[00:21:15] No one's gonna read it.

[00:21:17] So I think making yourself, doing good quality work,

[00:21:21] having happy clients and being clear about what you do.

[00:21:25] So it's really just crystal clear in everybody's mind

[00:21:28] why you're so valuable.

[00:21:30] That makes you referable.

[00:21:32] So I would say that's the first thing.

[00:21:33] And then the other thing is using quality

[00:21:37] and building these quality relationships.

[00:21:39] So we build networks.

[00:21:41] I think everybody's had this idea

[00:21:43] that you're supposed to go find an attorney,

[00:21:44] an accountant and a financial advisor

[00:21:46] and those teams will work together.

[00:21:48] What we've done is we built a company

[00:21:50] called the National Referral Network.

[00:21:52] Right, right.

[00:21:54] And the National Referral Network

[00:21:55] is that concept on a national scale.

[00:21:58] And the advantage there is we can kick people out

[00:22:01] when they don't do things right.

[00:22:02] So when somebody is not doing edification properly

[00:22:05] or whatever, we can drop them from that system.

[00:22:08] And so that keeps everybody,

[00:22:10] and we can do background checks

[00:22:11] and all that stuff for them.

[00:22:13] We've checked them out before you're even,

[00:22:15] they're part of the network.

[00:22:16] That's great.

[00:22:17] I wanna hear more about that in a second, Rick.

[00:22:18] But let me ask you this.

[00:22:19] If somebody's looking to make some changes

[00:22:22] in these two areas that we talked about

[00:22:24] in terms of being able to compress trust

[00:22:26] and also edification,

[00:22:28] if you could kind of distill this into three action steps,

[00:22:31] what would those action steps be?

[00:22:33] Let's see, first compression.

[00:22:34] I think that what you've gotta do

[00:22:35] is you've gotta break out your,

[00:22:37] you've gotta be very mindful, conscious

[00:22:39] of what your process is currently.

[00:22:42] And then, so that's the first thing, what is it?

[00:22:45] What segments could be sectioned out separately?

[00:22:48] And some of them you don't even have to do

[00:22:49] is that'd be another step.

[00:22:51] And then pushing through,

[00:22:53] I think as you go through this,

[00:22:55] it's gonna be uncomfortable.

[00:22:57] You're gonna have to go through those steps

[00:22:58] and still feel uncomfortable for a bit

[00:23:00] until it becomes part of who you are.

[00:23:02] But then you can brand around it.

[00:23:04] I think on the edification front,

[00:23:07] I think it's being very conscious about,

[00:23:09] mindful of how you are doing it.

[00:23:11] And it's so, I think for myself,

[00:23:13] I struggled for a long time.

[00:23:16] I could accept people edifying me,

[00:23:18] but it was really hard for me to edify other people.

[00:23:21] And I think you have to,

[00:23:23] so every 10 minutes in a conversation with somebody,

[00:23:26] I wanna find a way to edify them.

[00:23:28] It's gone by, it hasn't been a little bit of a while.

[00:23:30] And I go, you know,

[00:23:31] Greg made a great point right there.

[00:23:33] And I just think we need to stop and appreciate

[00:23:35] how good a point that was.

[00:23:37] Wow, you've just built Greg up.

[00:23:39] And that's, as opposed to interrupting each other

[00:23:43] and de-edifying.

[00:23:44] I think the other thing, second step there is,

[00:23:46] try, think about how you're de-edifying somebody.

[00:23:51] Maybe you shouldn't be referring to them.

[00:23:52] If you have to say they don't return phone calls,

[00:23:54] maybe they're not even the person

[00:23:56] you should be sending work out.

[00:23:57] But, and I would say probably the third thing I would say

[00:24:00] is most important there is edify your staff.

[00:24:03] Yeah, that's great leadership too.

[00:24:04] I think that kind of builds an environment,

[00:24:06] a culture where people wanna stay

[00:24:08] when they know that they're getting

[00:24:09] that kind of recognition.

[00:24:10] That's right, that's right.

[00:24:11] Most firms would give you,

[00:24:12] there's a whole section in the book about culture.

[00:24:15] Most firms are very, they ignore culture.

[00:24:19] They don't even know what you're talking about.

[00:24:20] And so I think that that is super, super important.

[00:24:24] And I'm sure for you, it's way easier to recruit

[00:24:26] from a company that has great culture

[00:24:29] than for one that doesn't.

[00:24:30] Right.

[00:24:31] And Rick, tell us about your offerings,

[00:24:33] about the offerings and services that you have

[00:24:35] that your company provides

[00:24:36] that you'd like for our listeners to know about.

[00:24:38] Yeah, I would say this.

[00:24:39] First of all, if you have questions about any of this,

[00:24:42] you know, I take calls all the time.

[00:24:44] I probably, twice a week I've got something.

[00:24:47] So you can find me in a simple web search

[00:24:49] at Protection Point Advisors,

[00:24:51] and you can certainly get a hold of me and ask questions.

[00:24:55] The second thing is we run a firm,

[00:24:57] the National Referral Network, nrnamerica.com.

[00:25:01] And if you're a professional who wants to grow

[00:25:04] and wants to look at how to grow better,

[00:25:07] then that's a great coaching system that we've got there,

[00:25:10] which is there's a no cost program,

[00:25:12] free program, there's a paid program.

[00:25:14] But the idea is that you can play

[00:25:16] with other professionals in a safe sandbox

[00:25:19] where we've already done a lot of that background

[00:25:21] for you.

[00:25:22] That's great.

[00:25:23] We'll put those links on the show notes.

[00:25:25] So everybody that's listening,

[00:25:26] go to where you hear your podcast,

[00:25:28] click on the show notes,

[00:25:29] and you'll be able to get that information directly.

[00:25:31] We're also gonna put a link for your book,

[00:25:33] which I'd highly recommend.

[00:25:35] A firm worth building,

[00:25:37] running a better professional business.

[00:25:38] We'll put a link to where people can order that

[00:25:40] on the show notes also.

[00:25:42] Rick, thanks for coming on.

[00:25:43] You've done a great job.

[00:25:44] I know that there's a lot more

[00:25:45] that you can share with us,

[00:25:46] so I'd love to have you back on the show in the future.

[00:25:48] Great, thanks Scott, it's great.

[00:25:53] Thank you for listening to the Rain Making Podcast.

[00:25:57] For more information about our recruiting services

[00:25:59] for international law firms,

[00:26:01] visit our website at attornisearchgroup.com.

[00:26:06] To inquire about having Scott speak

[00:26:08] at your next convention,

[00:26:09] conference, sales meeting,

[00:26:11] or executive retreat,

[00:26:12] visit therainmakingpodcast.com.